<ul>
<li>List item</li>
</ul>
<p>I have read many informal introductions to economics I want something not only rigorous but realistic</p>
<p>I find classical microeconomics to be very weird, I don;t know if the field has changed.</p>
<p>I know modern economist are not Randian Objectivist Austrian Economist waxing on praxeology, but even if econ 201 corrects the weirdness of 101, is there an alternative that starts <em>right</em> from the beginning, instead of patching a leaky theory?</p>
<p>I understand that there are many simplifications implemented by models because actual models that could model the economy are way too hard, but that makes no sense for microeconomics where not only experiments but entire simulations are possible,</p>
<p>So the list of things I find weird:</p>
<p>The fact that the demand curve increases with decreasing prices(even a rational agent has finite needs, I know that marginal utility might account for this but people don't go around buying tonnes of extra borax &quot;just because&quot; even if it is the cheapest mineral, you buy it when you need it.) To summarize this points, goods like health care make the demand curve inelastic because we are mortal beings with bounded resources but needs that maybe &quot;infinite&quot; ie, that take over everything else (in the order sense of the word not the algebraic one)</p>
<p>Couldn't suppliers undermine competition by not increasing their prices when demand increases? Why does the supply increase always, what about economies of scale, future investments? Circumstances might change that determine what is the most &quot;rational&quot; choice</p>
<p>The notion that information travels instantly at no cost. This a very empirical claim that is just weird, like what?</p>
<p>Prices show revealed preferences. This is a psychological claim not supported by neuroscience</p>
<p>The random walk of market being interpreted as it being efficient instead of just chaotic, or that a minimum wage increases unemployment, something that has empirical evidence against it; all of this ideas point to the models of microeconomics being too weird and simple to model reality.</p>
<p>I don't just mean that I find human behaviour irrational (and except for the school of behavioural economics the assumption in many other schools is that agents make rational choices), but rather that even a fully rational agent might have inconsistent preference because preferences might change, that needs are finite, that there are things that no matter how expensive you might need to buy them, that knowledge has a cost and information too and thinking takes time, something any computer scientist or neuroscientist knows.</p>
<p>So are there any alternatives to mainstream microeconomics that are more realistic, mathematical but also not ideological? Just the dispassionate pursue of the truth?</p>
<p>Edited to clarify the borax point</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-25T06:02:34.843Z
People actually do demand less or more borax, depending on the price. That's not an assumption but a fact. If it gets too expensive, people (firms) switch to alternatives like ulexit. That concept is also used by firms who set prices to determine optimal pricing.
AKdemy
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-25T08:01:14.667Z
That is an interesting rant.
Michael Greinecker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-25T08:09:30.463Z
@MichaelGreinecker I think with some edits the question could have merit. (Not surprising.) Currently the critiques start with the weakest one.
Giskard
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-25T14:38:39.900Z
It is not meant to take down economics. Maybe if you were some kind of utility monster gobbling up resources, but actual firms are bounded, iPhones factories do not hoard every shiny object under the sun, they have bounded needs that are set primarily by common sense and ultimately by physics, there are just so many things that you will need to make an iphone and so many people in the world. We are finite beings. Do you have an actual suggestion?  A book that starts from the ground up with more realistic assumptions? I do  no want an ideological reference, just something realistic.
Lina Jane
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-25T14:39:21.340Z
@MichaelGreinecker What do you suggest my question be? Feel free to edit it if you want and can do it
Lina Jane
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-25T14:43:27.473Z
If you want to build an iphone, economics might not be the right field. For a more general methodological point: https://kwarc.info/teaching/TDM/Borges.pdf
Michael Greinecker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-25T18:24:30.967Z
@Lina Jane Maybe you can read something about *bounded rationality* : https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/bounded-rationality/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounded_rationality
BakerStreet
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-25T19:03:03.270Z
Also Amartya Sen https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/amartya-sen/preference-choice-and-rationality/0AC6E4961169A0CE101120D2D9CD1280

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv1dv0td8
BakerStreet
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-25T19:22:02.627Z
Ok that is exactly what I am looking for. Don't know why that was not an answer. I was even able to find a book with that term, don't know if it is any good. Rationality, Bounded Rationality and Microfoundations
Foundations of Theoretical Economics
Lina Jane
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-25T19:48:48.733Z
You are welcome! This is an important field of research, Herbert  Simon, the most famous proponent of bounded rationality, and Amartya Sen are both Nobel laureates in economics.
BakerStreet
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-25T21:47:37.047Z
There's also a text by Evans and HonkaPojah called "Learning and Expectations in macro".  But I'm not certain that it's going to be able to able to answer or even address any of your questions. Try to take a look before you purchase it because I'm not an economist. I just happened to deal with RE quite a bit ( and I saw BakerStreet's reference to Herbert Simon who is quite well known )  so I know about them and their book.
mark leeds
<reference-request><soft-question>
Is there a mathematical more realistic version of economics
Lina Jane
# Is there a mathematical more realistic version of economics

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-09-25)

* List item

I have read many informal introductions to economics I want something not only rigorous but realistic

I find classical microeconomics to be very weird, I don;t know if the field has changed.

I know modern economist are not Randian Objectivist Austrian Economist waxing on praxeology, but even if econ 201 corrects the weirdness of 101, is there an alternative that starts *right* from the beginning, instead of patching a leaky theory?

I understand that there are many simplifications implemented by models because actual models that could model the economy are way too hard, but that makes no sense for microeconomics where not only experiments but entire simulations are possible,

So the list of things I find weird:

The fact that the demand curve increases with decreasing prices(even a rational agent has finite needs, I know that marginal utility might account for this but people don't go around buying tonnes of extra borax "just because" even if it is the cheapest mineral, you buy it when you need it.) To summarize this points, goods like health care make the demand curve inelastic because we are mortal beings with bounded resources but needs that maybe "infinite" ie, that take over everything else (in the order sense of the word not the algebraic one)

Couldn't suppliers undermine competition by not increasing their prices when demand increases? Why does the supply increase always, what about economies of scale, future investments? Circumstances might change that determine what is the most "rational" choice

The notion that information travels instantly at no cost. This a very empirical claim that is just weird, like what?

Prices show revealed preferences. This is a psychological claim not supported by neuroscience

The random walk of market being interpreted as it being efficient instead of just chaotic, or that a minimum wage increases unemployment, something that has empirical evidence against it; all of this ideas point to the models of microeconomics being too weird and simple to model reality.

I don't just mean that I find human behaviour irrational (and except for the school of behavioural economics the assumption in many other schools is that agents make rational choices), but rather that even a fully rational agent might have inconsistent preference because preferences might change, that needs are finite, that there are things that no matter how expensive you might need to buy them, that knowledge has a cost and information too and thinking takes time, something any computer scientist or neuroscientist knows.

So are there any alternatives to mainstream microeconomics that are more realistic, mathematical but also not ideological? Just the dispassionate pursue of the truth?

Edited to clarify the borax point

**Tags:** reference-request, soft-question
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: People actually do demand less or more borax, depending on the price. That's not an assumption but a fact. If it gets too expensive, people (firms) switch to alternatives like ulexit. That concept is also used by firms who set prices to determine optimal pricing.  
> **username_2**: That is an interesting rant.  
> **username_3**: @MichaelGreinecker I think with some edits the question could have merit. (Not surprising.) Currently the critiques start with the weakest one.  
> **username_0**: It is not meant to take down economics. Maybe if you were some kind of utility monster gobbling up resources, but actual firms are bounded, iPhones factories do not hoard every shiny object under the sun, they have bounded needs that are set primarily by common sense and ultimately by physics, there are just so many things that you will need to make an iphone and so many people in the world. We are finite beings. Do you have an actual suggestion?  A book that starts from the ground up with more realistic assumptions? I do  no want an ideological reference, just something realistic.  
> **username_0**: @MichaelGreinecker What do you suggest my question be? Feel free to edit it if you want and can do it  
> **username_2**: If you want to build an iphone, economics might not be the right field. For a more general methodological point: https://kwarc.info/teaching/TDM/Borges.pdf  
> **username_4**: @Lina Jane Maybe you can read something about *bounded rationality* : https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/bounded-rationality/  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounded_rationality  
> **username_4**: Also Amartya Sen https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/amartya-sen/preference-choice-and-rationality/0AC6E4961169A0CE101120D2D9CD1280  https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv1dv0td8  
> **username_0**: Ok that is exactly what I am looking for. Don't know why that was not an answer. I was even able to find a book with that term, don't know if it is any good. Rationality, Bounded Rationality and Microfoundations Foundations of Theoretical Economics  
> **username_4**: You are welcome! This is an important field of research, Herbert  Simon, the most famous proponent of bounded rationality, and Amartya Sen are both Nobel laureates in economics.  
> **username_5**: There's also a text by Evans and HonkaPojah called "Learning and Expectations in macro".  But I'm not certain that it's going to be able to able to answer or even address any of your questions. Try to take a look before you purchase it because I'm not an economist. I just happened to deal with RE quite a bit ( and I saw BakerStreet's reference to Herbert Simon who is quite well known )  so I know about them and their book.  

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## 0 answers

