>

In general I’d advise NEVER trying to have a discussion on the Ukraine War (or any other politics for that matter) on reddit. Redditor’s in general are very close minded and uneducated, they get their news from reddit and never do their own research or form their own opinions.
Everything you have said in your comments is 100% true and accurate, and backed by a simple Google search. While I do support Ukraine in this war it’s both infuriating, sad and hilarious seeing Redditor’s with a completely skewed reality of what is actually occurring.
“So we get 2 tanks, but we also get 14 leopards to send into the trenches? Sign me up” >

modern warfare >

Jungle warfare >

Gorilla warfare >

What did you say about me you little shit >

I’ll have you know >

I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, >

Classic >

German armour going up against the Russians again within a century, who would have thought!? >

“German tanks will soon be arriving in Ukraine to fight Russia”
I don’t think anyone expected to read that headline ever again. >

And they really didn't expect to be cheering on the German tanks. >

Plenty actually would have. Near the end of WW2, the western allies were prepared to recruit German units on the fly if the Soviets proved to be a threat that couldn't be worked with. Patton in particular had a very high opinion of the Germans, to the point of calling the Nuremburg Trials a "jewish revenge plot". >

Yet further proof that the best thing patton did was die in that car crash tbh. Dude was not a particularly competent general, not that that was his job I suppose. >

I wish McArthur would have been in that car too. They led the charge against their own troops during the bonus army protest for WW1 soldiers. Not to mention McArthur's anti communist tactics. >

Nah, McArthur lived long enough to go down as a disgrace, I'm good with that.  Hugely important figure for American military history in the first half of the 20th century, but also kind of a douche.  His role in HOI4 is very befitting his real life personality and accomplishments. >

Aussie here.
He was both a shitcunt and a dogcunt. >

I'm unfamiliar with these terms... >

As another Australian, I'll translate.
He was not generally well thought of in many aspects of his personality and behaviour towards others. >

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 81%. (I'm a bot)


Germany will send 14 Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine and has authorised partner countries to also send them - despite threats from Russia.
Although Ukraine has stocks of Soviet-made tanks, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says his forces need more, faster and deadlier weapons - in particular Western tanks - to push the Russians back.
The German decision comes after the UK announced it would provide 14 Challenger 2 tanks, which was widely seen as an attempt to persuade other allies to send Leopards, of which there are much higher stocks across Europe.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: tank^#1 send^#2 Ukraine^#3 Russia^#4 weapons^#5 >


14 Leopard 2 Tanks

These fast and furious movies are out of control >

14 Leopard, 2 tanks, 1 cup. >

1 Putin, 1 jar >

1 Putin, 1 cup of tea >

Do you add the pollonium before or after the water? >

After. Less possibility of splash damage, and better taste. >


Germany said that partner countries that have stocks of the NATO-standard tank can now donate them to Kyiv.

So on top of Germany's shipment, other countries like Poland now officially have the greenlight to make shipments without German interference. >

Germany never interfered. >

Yeah it was Switzerland wasn’t it? >

Switzerland had blocked ammo exports, however when you buy arms from Germany it comes with a legal clause attached that says that you are not allowed to re-export them without explicit permission from the German government. So up until now Poland couldn't send their leopards without breaching the contract. >


when you buy arms from Germany it comes with a legal clause attached that says that you are not allowed to re-export them without explicit permission from the German government.

Isn’t that the case with every country?

So up until now Poland couldn’t send their leopards without breaching the contract.

It’s notable that Poland has never asked Germany until 2 days ago, while the German government previously signaled multiple times during the past weeks they’d  greenlight these plans. >

They got a few days of shitting on Germany out of it. Thats largely what PiS functions on. Plus its an election year so there was no way they were going to turn down the opportunity. >

A few days of shitting on Germany is largely what PIS functions on? I'm confused >

A right winged political party raising votes by blaming a stereotyped foreigner for their own mistakes. What's there to be confused about? >


Yesterday, Moscow warned Berlin that sending tanks "does not bode well for future relations" - 

Do you know what doesn't bode well for future relations? Invading a neighbour and repeatedly threatening nuclear war if they ~~rubber~~ don't capitulate. 

and told the US that should it authorise such a move it would be a "blatant provocation".

Can Russia just shut the fuck up now?
EDIT:  Corrected autocucumber of "don't" to "rubber" in a way that leaves the humor in the comment. >

That Russian stuff is mostly for internal propaganda purposes. They aren't trying to persuade people in the west, they are trying to keep their own citizens mad at the west and supporting the war. 
Russia does have other propaganda aimed at persuading the west to stop aiding Ukraine, but that mostly consists of portraying Zelensky and Ukraine in general as corrupt Nazis >


That Russian stuff is mostly for internal propaganda purposes. They aren't trying to persuade people in the west, they are trying to keep their own citizens mad at the west and supporting the war. 

Some of it is just horrid. For instance, I saw one propagandist saying that the US doesn't have the industrial capability to produce more 155mm shells than they already do. The US production of Ventilators with as few people that were involved should make this a joke within seconds. >

I mean, that is partially correct, the American Military Industrial Complex was not prepared to support a drawn out artillery war in Ukraine. War planning assumed that ground based artillery would be used in support of armored offensives and that air support would be able to fulfill many of the missions that artillery is being tasked with in Ukraine. 
This has lead to a situation where American production cannot keep up with consumption and stockpiles aren't infinite. However, America isn't the only country supporting Ukraine, so with help from Europe, South Korea, and other nations Ukraine is doing decently in terms of artillery ammunition. 
America is also ramping up production, but this will take time >

Spring is going to be a very interesting time in Ukraine.   We'll see what NATO main battle tanks, NATO AFVs, and 60,000 NATO trained Ukrainians can do against 500,000 new Russian recruits.     
On top of that it's expected the majority of the Russian equipment captured by Ukraine will be refitted and refurbished and ready for action.   That figure could be up to half of Ukraine's armored vehicle supply. >

Honestly I hope more than anything that it's not interesting and that seeing these tanks incoming, Someone arrests Putin and this whole war moves to tribunals and is done with. Too many people dying for soil. >

Arrests Putin lol? Who exactly would be doing the arresting here. >

That's how military coups happen all the time. >

Sure but in the case of Russia a lot of these guys are in just as deep as Putin. If there was momentum for that sort of thing it would’ve happened. No one overthrew Hitler even when the Russians were clearly taking over. >

Man, it just keeps going >

Coming soon: Russia moans that this isn't fair and threatens nuclear war (again). Everyone continues to ignore them.
Russia's best hope for eventual victory now is to dig in, attempt to hold the territory they've stolen whilst minimizing their losses, and attempt to wait it out whilst doing their best to destabilize their western opponents from within and shift geopolitical opinion. Watch out for increased Russian funding of opposition political parties and talking points!
Meanwhile, Ukraine needs to punch through the occupied regions' defenses, which is why they now need tanks. >

Yep.. they are taking Crimea back. >

Russia crying of escalation when they invaded a country they said they wouldn’t and targeted civilians… >

Gonna be a couple crowded tanks. Can leopards even drive tanks? >

You going to tell the leopards they are not allowed to drive the tank? >

That's the new guy's job. >

"It destroys the remnants of mutual trust, causes irreparable damage to the already deplorable state of Russian-German relations, casts doubt on the possibility of their normalisation in the foreseeable future," it added.
Russia did that the minute they invaded Ukraine >

Netherlands is sending battle tanks. The Netherlands. When the Netherlands has decided it’s sick of your shit and sending the tanks, you really aren’t a superpower anymore. >

No surprise because many Dutch people were killed when Russian backed rebels and even actual Russian troops shot down MH17 back in 2014. 298 people died on that plane. 193 were Dutch citizens. >

Yeah, and the commander of the people who shot down the plane was Girikin. You can see his name popup during this war from time to time as one of the Russian pro-war nationalist voices who openly criticizes the Russian army. >


who openly criticizes the Russian army

To be clear,  he criticizes the Russian army for being incompetent, not for invading Ukraine. >

Should probably have added that but thought the "pro-war nationalist" part was enough to make that obvious. :) >

Russia will claim to have destroyed 37 of them before March. >

...Is that a lot? It doesn't sound like a lot.... >

It isn't if you think in terms of WW2. However, these are much more advanced tanks. For instance, the US is sending Bradleys. A US soldier mentioned that using the optics on it in the 90s, he could tell which enemy were sick based on the temperature difference of their noses. >

Bradleys aren't tanks. They're anti-tank fighting vehicles. 
For tanks we are sending a few dozen Abrams. 
We are sending both. >

I am well aware. >

What did Russia expect to happen? They may have the numbers but Ukraine has the combined forces of the rest of the world military equipment as their disposal. >

I just find the Russian government as the most moronic group of people I've ever had the pleasure of reading and listening to. They say this could lead to a global catastrophe bc they will be used to hurt Russian soldiers.. Ummm well GTFO of someone else's yard and blowing shit up and nobody will get hurt. Ukraine doesn't want to cross the border into Russia and cause complete mayhem to their citizens and shit like the russians are doing to them. They are just defending their country. Honestly, the dumbest fucks I've ever heard, that are supposed to be "professional". >

Single Leopard 2 worth probably like 100 family houses in Ukraine.
Something like F-35 is probably like 1000 family houses in Ukraine.
Crazy how expensive those things are, anyway, they are put to a good use, use they were designed for. >

Honestly, just because they build them on such small scale and only the new variants.
Old 2A4 were sold for 100k-500k used around the 2000s. >


Old 2A4 were sold for 100k-500k used around the 2000s.

It was a fire sale, mind you, not their true worth. Germany was practically giving the things away. >

Of course, but now the receiving end can do the same. >

To start with most likely. Now that the floodgates are open the taboo has been broken. Poland will probably send half their inventory. >

Guess we're done here, might as well skip to the Russian Civil War 2.0 >

I think this includes Rheinmetall aswell. "Rheinmetall could supply a total of 139 Leopard tanks" -  Reuters >

This includes Leopard 1. >

And also the ones which were supposed to go to Czech Republic where Germany bought some Soviet tanks for Ukraine in exchange for some Leo's.
Rheinmetall only has 100 free. 88 which are only Leo 1. >

Feels so sad and strange to be cheering for this >

Reddit is a shit hole now. No foresight at all. >

This makes 69 main battle tanks (14 Leopard 2s, 24 Challengers, and 31 M1s), right? >

This is a tank nerds dream. We don't know which is the best MBT, but we know it's one of those 3. Same conflict, an adversary they were all specifically designed against... Have at it boys. >

The way I see this going is a brutal war of attrition breaking down into rapid advance and retreat fighting, with both sides making gains and suffering losses as the Leopard 2s and Abrams make short work of ousting dug in Russian positions but because Russia has a lot of materiel and troops to throw at the problem, when Ukraine makes a gain the Russians push in behind and threaten to cut them off. 
The tactics, particularly in how an envelope into enemy territory can be expanded and protected, will decide how much of their own territory they can take back and hold. It's no good the Ukrainians blasting a 30 mile long thunder run only to have to haul ass backwards because the Russians are threatening to encircle them.
The thunder runs need to be supported by the entire army, holding back counter attacking forces and unfortunately, without air superiority this is going to be a very difficult task indeed.
Without being able to erase Russian artillery platforms from the battlefield, even the new Leopard and Abrams tanks will take losses that Ukraine can ill afford. I very much doubt the Russians will want to engage in open tank warfare against such a sophisticated and modern weapons platform, so I think they will keep their tanks in reserve and make moves after the Ukrainians have decided to attack. >

Ladies and gentlemen........LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE! >

So, German tanks will go to Ukraine against Russians. Again. >

That's great they sent the tanks, but why did they have to send 14 leopards as well? >

To operate the tanks. >

Can somove ELI5 the difference between these tanks and the soviet tanks. Is it like a 2020 F150 vs a 2010 RAM 1500 or something? What's the heads up like? >

The tanks that Germany will send are probably the Leopard 2A5 variants, which entered service in 1995, and are no longer used by Germany itself.
Russia has T90s on the field, which are comparable, but also newly produces T-90MS, which, on paper, are better.
Neither side will win this war with tanks though, tanks are in general obsolete in modern combat. All this news about tanks are little more than morale boosts/hits, I expect this to have very little impact on the course of the conflict itself. >


The tanks that Germany will send are probably the Leopard 2A5 variants

A6, apparently.

Neither side will win this war with tanks though, tanks are in general obsolete in modern combat

Within common NATO doctrine, yes, since that focuses more on air superiority. Ukraine is more of a traditional slog, not nearly as modern as you might imagine.
Big tank brigades can very well collapse Russian lines. It's a massive boost to Ukraine's offensive capability. >

You think tanks are obsolete in Nato doctrine? That's ridiculous. >

Not wholly. But they are significantly de-emphasized compared to what role tanks would have once had.
We do still build the things, after all. >

/r/leopardsatemyface >

Is that a lot? It doesn’t sound like a lot. >

Forgive me a stupid question... but how much impact can a single company or even a tank battalion have, given the difference in quality in the equipment, vs. legacy Soviet and modernized Russian gear? I just have no idea, in a war where we're talking about thousands of tanks, what exactly will this mean in a practical/tactical sense? >

What germany delivered? But who am i supposed to be angry at now ? /s >

Remember when stealth fighter jets were all the rage? 
Now that they have these fancy ‘tank’ thingamajigs, it’s like a whole new era of warfare. This changed everything 😋 >

Military industrial complex bout to have some good bonuses the next decade or so >

Huh, bringing leopards in a tank fight eh. Interesting. >

'Bout fuckin' time. >

Panzer vorwärts! Feur frei! >

wonder how long they will last >

14 leopards. Puurrfect 😼 >

I wish it would be 140 not just 14. >

This whole saga has been political theatre, 14 leopards here a dozen or less M1’s that Ukraine will probably be able to barely maintain and operate in the sloppy mud of the spring steppes will not win wars. >

Ukraine itself stated that foreign weapon deliveries were of great significance.
There are plans to send way more than 14. Every other European country in possession of Leopards has Germanys green light now as well (Not that this mattered much I think). >

Ukraine can say a lot of things, Germany can barely maintain their own stock, they can barely fufil contracted orders from other EU countries. Now with a wave of a magic wand we are going to send dozens of them to a war zone. Alongside thirty one M1s that as recently as last week the state department was saying would be prohibitively complex for the Ukrainians to properly maintain and utilize them effectively.
Edit: no one wants to discuss the realities of this conflict or the political theatre from both sides that completely control the narrative. Reddit just wants to continue their circle jerk.