>

I think this actually feeds into OP's point that wearing a skirt and being a guy are things that society reinforces as incompatible.
I feel that so many people that identify as non-binary only do so because they don't conform to their gender stereotypes, not because they have genuine gender dysmorphia.

Actually, the thing about being non-binary is that non-binary can and often do experience gender dysphoria* (which is what it is; not dysmorphia). It seems like an overwhelming aspect of this post is that you base your views off of the belief that being a non-binary trans person automatically equates to being a non-dysphoric trans person and vice versa, but this isn't true.
There are binary trans people who do identify with being non-dysphoric, and there are non-binary trans people who identify with being dysphoric. I am one of the latter.
My gender identity and how I arose did not come out of a desire to be a "man that plays with dolls and likes painting his nails". It came because I ultimately realized that my primary and secondary sex characteristics caused be significant distress, something easy and clear to label as gender dysphoria, but I am absolutely 100% non-binary.

I think that if gender stereotypes weren't so strongly present - if boys didn't feel that they had to dress a certain way, if girls didn't feel they had to like certain things, and so on - then non-binary genders would barely exist.

Once again, gender stereotypes are not what make me dysphoric. I can say it clearly: even if gender stereotypes were abolished, I'd still hate my primary and secondary sex characteristics.

I'm not referring to trans gender people, who I've read often feel like they are trapped in the wrong body, often from a young age.

Non-binary people are transgender. Also, just a quick sidenote that "trapped in the wrong body" is not particularly the most nuanced way to describe the feeling of dysphoria.

I'm referring to people who are gender non-binary, and in particular people who may change their gender on an ongoing basis. Surely, if you were to 'wake up' and feel like a different gender, then it's really not your gender that's changing at all, but merely your mood.

Not all or even most non-binary people are genderfluid, and even to the ones that are genderfluid, it still isn't necessarily as simple as "my mood changed so my gender changed", as far as I'm concerned. However, as a non-fluid non-binary person, I can't speak too much on the experience.

I've had many days where I wanted to go camping and light fires and throw big rocks into the river. I've had many days where I wanted to bake cakes, drink wine and gossip with friends. My gender in both of these occasions was the same - and the fact that me, you, and everyone reading this knows which example above corresponded to which gender is surely the problem here, not actual gender dysmorphia.

This entire last paragraph once again shows that your argument is on a false premise. Like, your entire point is that "people identify as non-binary because of gender stereotypes; not dysphoria!", but I'm a non-binary person who is non-binary and strictly identifies that way due to dysphoria without any regards to any social norms, and get this: I'm far from the only one. >

Your title says “normalization causes stereotypes” where as the body of your argument seems to be “stereotypes cause normalization”. >

I suppose you're right - but it's cyclical, no? The more we normalise non-binary genders, the more we affirm that these stereotypes fit within the box of the gender they're assigned to. >

You’d have to be making the argument that non-binary normalization somehow impacts societal opinions on gender, which I don’t think you’ve done yet. Sure, gender stereotypes can lead to people becoming non-binary, but I just don’t see how you can reasonably argue the inverse. >

Surely all you need to do is prove it impacts a personal opinion on gender and then you can extrapolate. >

But if society is already starkly biased towards binary gender roles, how exactly is changing a personal opinion towards normalization of nonbinary identities making that problem worse?  Any problematic integration would be a matter of accommodating/defending binary views against the incursion of accepting that nonbinary identities are truly nonbinary.  I don't see how the blame then falls on the nonbinary view. >

It shouldn’t get the blame, it just doesn’t help.
Lets put it this way: saying that men can’t cook and women are bad drivers are bad stereotypes. If you say you’re non-binary and so those stereotypes don’t apply to you, you are giving an implicit recognition that they’re accurate. Logic would then dictate that if someone doesn’t fit those stereotypes, they must be non-binary like yourself. Hence gender roles are reinforced. >

That's like saying atheism strengthens theistic cultural dominance.  But a world without belief in gods simply would be atheist.  They might not have a word for it, but if we were comparing their world to ours, "atheist" would be a useful descriptor.  Progressing towards that world would do the opposite of reinforcing theism.
Similarly, progressing towards a nonbinary world would necessarily weaken gender roles.  If a few binary stragglers entrenched themselves in an even more starkly binary view of gender roles, that would not be equivalent to nonbinary views reinforcing binary views.  Rather, it would be binary views reinforcing binary views, just as how cult members reinforce their ever more absurd beliefs.
If someone wants to take my identifying as nonbinary as an excuse to be even more binary, the problem is nonetheless with their views, not mine.  Nothing about my identifying as nonbinary requires women to do kitchen work or men to work on oil rigs.  That's absurd. >

For your example to be accurate you would need to replace atheism with another religion.
Atheism would be rejecting the very concept of gender. Which is exactly what I'm advocating. >

But identities that reject gender are necessarily nonbinary.  Agender is a nonbinary identity.  And all nonbinary identities reject binary gender roles. >

Yes, they reject binary gender roles in favour of trinary gender roles. Or quadrinary, or quinary or senary depending on many gender identities you decide to add to the mix.
You're not rejecting the original two, you are just giving other options. >


and the fact that me, you, and everyone reading this knows which example above corresponded to which gender is surely the problem here,

But surely, we cannot actually break away from that knowledge without deconstructing what 'man' and 'woman' mean in social construction and performance, which requires a recognition of something beyond the gender binary. Because if you are, say, a man who feels unbound by gender stereotypes, and you decide that you will dress in feminine clothes and do feminine things or whatever, that isn't really breaking away from the stereotype (or rather, the performative gender role) because you are still bound to it; your chosen gender presentation is still defined in relation to it. A man might be a transgressive man, but that is ultimately beholden to our understandings of the original idea of what a man is. So while you might be living outside of the stereotype, the stereotype is still there, it cannot be defeated this way. To actually deconstruct the stereotype and reform our understanding of gender identity (and thus gender performance and gender expectations) we have to understand and recognize identities beyond the binary >

Which is >

You're just making assumptions instead of basing your views on reality. If you knew more nonbinary people you would know that a lot of nonbinary people have typically feminine or masculine presentations. Their gender is about how they feel inside not how they like to dress or act. >

If it's not about stereotypes or gender presentation or expectations, then could you please explain what

Their gender is about how they feel inside

^ this means? >

Its about your gender identiy, your sense of self. It's diffuse and sometimes difficult to figure out but definitely there or trans people wouldnt be a thing. >

Does everyone have a gender identity? >

Yeah, it's just that most people dont notice it much because it aligns with your body and lived experience. It only really becomes obvious when your experienced no longer line up with what you brain expects. Cis people (aka non-trans people) will feel pretty shit as well when they get constatly missgendered for example. Just start calling a women "Sir" and see how she likes it. >


Just start calling a women "Sir" and see how she likes it.

This is down to sex, not gender. You'd be suggesting she looks male. 
You can't look at someone and know their internal feelings. We call people sir/madam/man/woman based on their sex, or if they've had surgery and hormones, their presented sex. 
That's all gender really means to most people.. sex. 
I don't "feel" any gender at all. I'm called a woman because I'm female. >


You'd be suggesting she looks male.

And that wouldnt be a bad thing at all if she didnt strongly prefer to be seen as feminine. She wont get upset because you are "factually incorrect" but because you dont treat her acording to her gender identity. That's all gender identity is really, a strong preference for how you want to be seen and treated as. >

People may get upset if they get mis-sexed. If you are female and someone calls you "sir" or "man" then that's inferring that you look male, nothing to do with any internal feelings. >

If you already believe that someone can feel like the other binary gender, instead of just being 'a feminine man' or 'a masculine woman', then why can't you imagine that someone can feel like something other than a man or a woman at all? >

This may sound naive… but can’t people just feel like themselves? And stop labelling everything they like or feel as masculine or feminine? >

They can!
And then people like OP get on their case for enforcing gender roles anyway. >

I swear down i feel like the thick kid in the back… 
I don’t get it.  Like I’ve tried really hard to get it, I don’t want to be the kind of person who doesn’t get it. I feel like I’m getting to the point where I get it, and then I don’t get it again. 
See I think OP makes a lot of sense, but at the same time, I’m seeing a lot of the comments that say OP is wrong, and they, to me feel like they actually back up OP’s point. >

You want people to 'feel like themselves'. And then they do, and some people feel like they are 'nonbinary' and therefore to feel like themselves they feel non-binary, at which point people like OP get annoyed at them for reinforcing gender stereotypes. OP is coming at this with the assumption that no one feels non-binary because non-binary people do not exist, and therefore anyone who is claiming to be non-binary is just a binary person who thinks they can't be a woman if they don't like dresses all the time or whatever. >

I Originally thought that non binary was a bit of a protest to gender stereotypes… I’ve since learnt that that’s not the case, but I guess I’m just not clear one what non binary actually is. >

Non-binary is an umbrella set of gender identities that are all outside the man/woman gender binary. They include people who identify as not having a gender, or having both genders, or having one gender but having that gender change, or having a third, entirely separate gender. 
The mere concept of non-binary genders tends to attack gender stereotypes (how do stereotypes of men and women work when someone is both a man and a woman at different times?), though of course several non-binary stereotypes have risen in their place. >

And this is where I fall down… all that sounds like a really complicated way of saying sod your stereotypes I’ll just do me. I was born a Woman and still am one, and to me all that means is smear test every 4 years and finding new inventive ways to stop my periods. >

To explain a bit more, when people say "feeling like a woman" they dont mean an actual emotion or concret feeling, it's more about a sense of self, how you are supposed to look like in your mind.
For you that might be hard to grasp because your body and general life experience already matches your gender identity, aka what you mind expects you to be. But for trans and non-binary people thats a very different story.
Im a trans woman and for the majory of my life every time i looked in the mirror it felt like a stranger was looking back at me. Sure, i knew that was my body i was seeing, but it just didnt connect mentally at all, that wasnt me, thats not how i was supposed to look like.
But once i started growing out my hair and just generally enjoying a more feminine appearance, when i looked in the mirror it suddenly connected for the first time in my life. It felt like i recognized myself for the first time in my life. I was seeing the actual me, how i was supposed to look like all along. At no point did sterotypes have any influence on that, it was just my brain telling me that i am infact a woman and this is how my body is supposed to look like. That's what gender identity is in it's essence, it's you sense of self.
Now im very much a binary trans lady, but i see no reason why it wouldnt be a very simialr story for non-binary folk of all flavours. >


But once i started growing out my hair and just generally enjoying a more feminine appearance, when i looked in the mirror it suddenly connected for the first time in my life. It felt like i recognized myself for the first time in my life. I was seeing the actual me, how i was supposed to look like all along. At no point did sterotypes have any influence on that

Do you not feel that suggesting "long hair = feminine" is a stereotype? >

TLDR there are other reason, whether you find it valid or not, that people may identify as nonbinary than just confusing male and female for masc and fem. Such as a protest to the idea of gender, gender euphoria, or actual gender dysphoria to both binary genders.
Theres an idea that you dont have to experience gender dysphoria to be trans. Thats what popularised non-binary people claiming that tittle. ((Also, dysphoria and dismorphia are 2 different things. Dysphoria is pain caused by a dissonance in the way you feel you are forces to carry an identity that is not yours. Dismorphia is a confusion in the way you see physical things, ei. Body dismorphia is a cpnfusion on how you see your body vs what its actual form))
There can be different non binary types, agender, thirdgender, spectrum nonbinary. And back when these ideas were being explored, kingender (basing your gender on an animal or person, whether real or fiction. Which later just became kinning the way that furries have a fursona), concept genders (like paradox or void gender). These other ideas started to be excluded because of their lack of relation to the standard concept of genders.  The former, however, stayed. ((theres also gender fluidity, but thats seems to be also slowly phasing out in the way that kingenders and concept genders have))
Some have the idea that, like you said, its more about feminine vs masculine. But they arent the only ones. 
Others for example, have the idea that the concept of gender should be abolished and that people should not be seen as any gender but just as a person, and that anatomy should be reserved for doctors, sex, or sometimes aesthetic. But not for identifying yourself or someone else. This is generally because when people think of men or women, there are general preconcieved notions or attitudes that you may subconciously bring, even if its hard to realise or very slight. This is why alot of people find it hard to use alternate pronouns. You may see a person as a girl, and that means something to you, so it would be hard for you to call them "he/him". 
Another reason might be something called gender euphoria. This is the opposite of gender dysphoria. You enjoy partaking in the culture, activities or other stuff of other genders. Anything that a "regular" trans pwrson might find that triggers their dysphoria may trigger another persons euphoria. A trans woman might recoil at someone calling them "big guy" while a trans man might melt at the thought of someone calling them "big guy". This can occur occasionally in cisgendeted (non trans) people, like when youre proud of a moustache youve grown naturally, but supposedly trans people chase that idea regularly. Non binary people may chase euphoria regularly from both binary genders to different degrees.  People think that if you regularly chase euphoria from 
One gender over the other by alot that you must identify as that gender. But what happens when its relatively even. And whats the cut off point, since its pretty hard to be exactly in the middle.
And then there is still gender dysphoria. You might feel gender dysphoria from one gender, but also still feel it for the other. Or you might feel that, even though you feel fine when people think of you as a man or woman and occasionally refer you as such, it gets uncomfortable when people are a little too heavy handed when they affirm a specific gender too much or too hard. Like, you may be fine if some one refers to you as that dude or that chick or whatever, but when they start saying stuff like "damn big guy your buff. That moustache looks really good on you too. You know your really handsome" you can start to feel out of place.
I dont know which i agree with or if i agree with any of them. But what i DO agree with is that they have more reasons than just being confused, whether those are valid or not. And hopeful thats what ive convinced you of. You can argue with these reasons, but at thw very least i 2ant to cpnvince you that these reaspns exist. >

Many nonbinary people medically transition including both surgeries and hormonal treatments.  In what way do those procedures - meant to alleviate their gender dysphoria - "normalize gender stereotypes"? >

I'm non-binary because of dysphoria. My gender identity does not relate to what I wear, or how I act, or whatever other stereotype that might be associated with one of the binaries. Some days I'll wear skirts but still identify more as a man. It's not related to gender norms. It's related to how I personally perceive, feel, and identify with my physical body and self--the same way the transgender people you seem to accept experience dysphoria.