>

I hope Georgia can get this case to the finish line. I'm still not holding my breath that Trump gets convicted of a serious crime, and even less likely that he faces some tangible consequence, but Georgia feels like our best bet at the moment.
“I just want 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won the state”.
What do the words “which is one more than we have” actually mean?  I’ve never quite understood the logic. >

11,780 is one more vote than the 11,779 that they were behind in votes. >

I’m sure, but still…. >

I can't imagine a scenario where they had found a way to produce exactly 11,799 votes already and only needed  Raffensperger to provide 1 more. 
But, let's say this was the case, then I am sure that we would have seen those 11,799 votes introduced so that Georgia was sent into "hung" territory, and we would have had a replay of Florida 2000. >

They were behind almost 12000 votes.  In other parts of the conversation he suggests raff should just lie about the number.  Most of the conversation as i saw it was Trump trying to convince raff its not a big deal to "only" lie about 12000 votes, its not like he was asking for 1 million votes or something. Just a little lie, nbd. >

Correct. Here's a quote that backs up your statement -- Trump during the same convo:
“I just want to find 11,780 votes. So what are we going to do here, folks? I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break.”
The "give me a break" is the tell that he thinks finding 11k votes shouldn't be hard. 
Problem is, Trumps mind operates in 1D and he's unable to calculate that those votes would have to come from Trump-friendly counties, making it much more difficult to come up with them (percentage-wise). >

Thanks for the quote!  
And really good point about the Trump friendly counties, his issue should not be with biden friendly Fulton, but some other place he actually did better in than Fulton.  But as you say, that's not what he fixated on, so he commits multiple felonies against a county that would not vote for him, ever.  What an idiot. >

Yeah, this buffoon has the IQ of an ice cube tray. Lucky for him, it helps keep him out of prison because his embarrassing levels of stupid make it difficult to interpret his actions as criminal, at a level beyond a reasonable doubt. >

They covered that pretty well in the jan 6th hearings.  He ignored many, many, many lawyers, relatives, etc telling him what he was doing was illegal. >

Here's hoping for a conviction and what amounts to a life sentence for him. >


Trump’s attorneys did not appear at the hearing on Tuesday, but released a statement noting Trump was never called to testify in the probe. “The grand jury compelled the testimony of dozens of other, often high-ranking, officials during the investigation, but never found it important to speak with the President,”

I know Trump gets bargain-basement lawyers, but even they must know how a grand jury works. Which makes this statement really, really sad. >


...but never found it important to speak with the President...  

...since they are familiar with his standard stalling tactics and could get the incriminating evidence needed from other sources. >

Sure, but the really funny part is that a grand jury is usually convened to indict someone, and you don't normally bring in the person they are requesting be indicted to give evidence to the grand jury. >

This jury's purpose wasn't to indict. Apparently, there is another type of grand jury that is more investigative in nature. This is that type of jury. >

It’s almost like they have a tape of him committing election interference. >

And they have tapes, cashed checks, and a confession for illegally paying off a porn star.
But micheal cohen went to prison for a one man conspiracy I guess. >


one man conspiracy 

Even though "Individual 1" mentioned in the case was obviously guilty as well. >

He was guilty, even in the court ruling. Trump was an "unindicted co-conspirator", which means he's guilty, but the court decided to not indict him. >

You just gave me an aneurysm on how wrong that is. 
A. He’s guilty by being labeled as an unindicted co-conspirator. No. That’s not how that works. 
B. Courts aren’t the one who decide to indict.
The prosecutor both labeled him and decided not to indict. The prosecutor has no power of declaring someone guilty. >

hasn't indicted & prosecuted him yet >

Paraphrasing Bill Maher; He tried a coup, the only consequences can’t be that it failed. >

My favorite part: 

“Many people, including lawyers for both sides, were knowingly on the line,” Trump wrote. “I was protesting a RIGGED & STOLEN Election.”

So, if you ever get arrested for robbing a bank, just remember that you were protesting HIGH banking fees. >

More like if you were protesting nonexistent high banking fees that you yourself invented for the sake of pressuring the bank into giving you a loan that you didn't qualify for. >


the bank into giving you a loan that you didn't qualify for.

"The bank didn't give me the loan that I didn't qualify for so I brought my gun and got the loan for myself."
The perfect bank robber defense. >

It’s looking all but certain Trump is getting indicted. Possibly as early as this week (although a few weeks is probably more likely). It's also possible we see the indictments in batches, but final charging decisions are not far off in any scenario.
I can hear a million “believe it when I see it” resonating through the Mueller investigation's ghost as I say this, but there really isn’t much to doubt at this point.
Trump is unequivocally, irrefutably the main target of this investigation. It began because of him, is centered on him, and involves multiple facets of criminality. There is smoking gun evidence not only in the Raffensperger call and efforts against other GA officials, but also through the fake elector scheme and Trump's lawyer - John Eastman.
The investigation has received testimony from 75 witnesses, including virtually every top Republican government official in Georgia, Lindsey Graham, Michael Flynn, and 4 of Trump's lawyers and advisers. Rudy Giuliani, the GA GOP leader, and 16 fake electors have been informed they are criminal targets that may face charges.
Fani Willis confirmed yesterday that the special grand jury has recommended multiple charges. She confirmed that they are serious felonies that carry lengthy sentences. And she confirmed she will be reaching a decision very soon.
Trump’s lawyers hilariously are citing the fact that Trump was not subpoenaed (only every single other person connected to him) as evidence he will be cleared, but that is NOT good for him. The main target of a multi-faceted criminal investigation (Willis is reportedly considering RICO charges, for example) is usually not subpoenaed.
There’s nothing to really stop her but herself at this point. Getting a return on an indictment is not particularly difficult at this stage. Only 12 of up to 23 grand jurors need to vote for it, and the bar is much, much lower than conviction in a trial jury.
Now if anyone wants to regress back to “believe it when I see it” and “justice is broken” and all that fun cynicism, you still have plenty of time:
Indictment is NOT “we got him!” Be prepared for a year, possibly years of proceedings. Arraignment, pre-trial, trial, sentencing, appeals. Endless things can still go wrong or go Trump’s way. There’s a long ways to go no matter what happens. >

He'll probably die before it's over. It's ridiculous that he's not in jail now. >

He'll flee the country as soon as charges are announced. We will never see Trump arraigned,  He'll retire to a place with excess and a stable internet connection where he can lob hate from afar and keep his cult rilled up without suffering any consequences other than never being able to set foot in the US again. >

Good luck pulling that off with a secret service detail. >

Some in that secret service detail are Trump loyalists so it's not impossible. >

Trump has had access to important intel.  Folks in the "US intelligence community" have absolutely dealt with similar scumbags when looking at the politics of other countries, thus likely have a good sense of who and what Trump is in terms of his psychology.  There must have been discussions on the problem that if Trump flees the US, he would need money, and selling intel would be one obvious way for him to do that.
I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall to hear these discussions. >

As long as it’s not written down. I think any Intel he has in his memory would be so jarbled that whomever he’s giving it to would end up making some really bad mistakes. >

Trump still has top secret documents that haven’t been returned. >

Dozens of empty classified folders indicate that's true. >

A take I’d like to see explored is that the most likely defense: He truly believe he won is invalid as a defense for soliciting fraud because earlier in the call Trump states unequivocally that he believes 11,780 votes is not the true number. Outlets never cover this point. 
Arguably, if trump didn’t believe it was fraudulent, there’s no crime. But he literally says, “I believe I won by over a million, but I’m not asking for that.”  It in no way helps that he’s asking for fewer votes. He’s asking for a number he states he believes is inaccurate. >


Willis’ investigation is separate from a federal probe of Trump’s attempts to stay in power despite losing the 2020 election, which is now being led by Special Counsel Jack Smith. Smith is also investigating whether Trump broke the law by bringing highly sensitive government documents marked classified to his Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach.

I know that at this point certain people are not even going to read this or even care about it, but can you imagine if just one of these things was against Clinton, Obama or even Biden? 
I often wonder how certain Republicans went from decent to completely brainwashed and delusional. I get that Fox News is likely responsible but like...you have a brain that works. Wtf happened? >

What happened is that they have realized that most people tend to have left leaning views in general whether they know it or not and the Republican Party has nothing to offer when it comes to governance. They’ve most likely projected that in some years ahead, their party as it was known would be moribund. This crazy shit is their Hail Mary to stay relevant and in power, even if it means disavowing democracy itself. >

It's this. Their policies are just factually unpopular among the USA in general, and outright despised within the majority of the younger generations. They're floundering and dying, and are forced to embrace the kooks because without their votes - they'd never win another election ever.
Don't let them tell you it's just a fringe element or not representative of the party as a whole. It's exactly who they are and pander to now... >

Yeah the house committees have those people all over the place. It’s not a minor segment of the party. >

Just watch. The moment charges are announced a flood of GOP candidates will announce their run for 2024. >

This ^ >

He's about to learn something about GSU educated prosecutors. The term "bulldog" gets thrown around a lot, but when it comes from the heart... >

I didn't say anyone was specifically noteworthy, but the law school is well known for turning out fairly ferocious prosecutors; its the cheapest law school in Georgia and right in downtown Atlanta. It had a reputation for focusing on "real world" practice instead of the ivory tower or gilded spoon settings of the more prestigious law schools. Its students graduate with a hatchet in hand, ready to chop some wood, not lobby politicians or run daddy's firm. >

As always, wake me up when he is actually punished for ANYTHING. We were all told Mueller was coming for him with handcuffs years ago and like everything else Trump related nothing ever happened. 
He always has a loyalist judge,prosecutor or someone on the inside to kill any trail. >

I'll believe it when I see it. For god's sake will someone in our government wake up and apply the law to politicians who break it!? >

I'm tired on Justice Edging >

Charge him or STFU >

My guess is we will know within 2 weeks. >

I imagine it was probably serious. From what I've read, in Georgia grand juries are empaneled every two months, with the most recent one being empaneled this month and the next one being in March. If Fani Willis is saying the decisions are coming very soon, I imagine she's probably already presenting evidence to the currently empaneled grand jury, so "within two weeks" seems like a reasonable timeline to have at least a first round of indictments. IANAL though, so I'm just speculating based on information I read from prosecutors and such explaining the situation. >

I think the next strongest case outside of Georgia is the one before the obstruction concerning top secret documents that needed a search warrant.That is the one in New York  where Michael Cohen was convicted over the Stormy Daniels payments and Trump was allegedly " Individual 1" who had committed one of the same crimes that Michael Cohen got convicted for. >

He just needs to “find” like 12 jury votes. >

It's possible that Trump legitimately believed that everyone in politics was as corrupt as he is and also thought that him calling Raff was also no big deal.
Thank christ the recording of that call went public. >

Secretary Raffensperger deserves all the credit in the world for: a) having the foresight to record what he had reason to believe would be an attempted shakedown by a sitting President of the United States 
and his campaign lawyers; and b) having the gall to release said recording to the public when his worst fears were confirmed. >


We have to be mindful of protecting future defendants’ rights.”

I can't wait until the future becomes the present pay. >

Just wait until they get him on actual Russian collusion, through Manafort. And he has no one to pardon him. >

Stop. Stop taunting us with what “looks like”, “May happen” or “is possible”
  When his ass is getting hauled off kicking and screaming, live, as he soils himself let me know. I will pay attention to that >

It's been very real for ages. I'm kinda sick of hearing how bad it COULD be for him. He's a criminal, Russian stooge, rapist, insurrectionist, bean bag of a narcissist. Start holding him accountable for SOMETHING! If he skates on his actions it's telling everyone scrambling to climb up his butt that the law is just a few loose guidelines that can be ignored or sidestepped for any reason whatsoever. God, watching the US political system play out for the last 6+ years has been infuriating. >

Believe it when I see it. >

Legit how many times are editors going to approve "This time Trump is actually in legal jeopardy, we swear" headlines before reality sinks in for them >

5 seconds after we all stop engaging with those articles and generating ad revenue. >

Yawn... Let us know when he faces actual consequences. >

Well good. It is real >

they gotta wait till election campaign starts so it would disqualify him for running >

I'm not sure it would.  I don't think there is anything restricting you from running if you're under indictment.  It's one of those things that seems obvious but nobody ever bothered to write down. >

you are correct he would still be able to run and serve even if convicted. Eugene Debs ran from prison and got almost 1 million votes. >

i want to see a perp walk. >

After going on a rampage about it being a perfect phone call about 24 hours ago, he is now silent and hasn’t posted anything which is not on brand. >

I firmly believe that if and that’s a big if they charge him it will take several years and he will end up with house arrest at mar a lago assuming he’s even still alive by then. >

Lmao, I swear there is a new one every few months >

Wake me up when they actual do something.  It's so tiring watching politicians get their own set of rules. >

It needs to look so real that his ass is in an orange jumpsuit in jail for many years to come. Until then all of this “it’s looking bad for Trump” talk without shot happening is very exhausting. >

Yes, Yes, I've got Georgia filing charges first. Make it happen, I'll win the pot!!!! >

Lock him up! >

There is absolutely no way he should get out of this. It was him in the phone and he used his office at the time to try and intimidate election officers! His usual out of “ I have no idea who that person is!” Will not work this time. It was you on the phone!! Will probably say it was someone else 🙄🙄🙄 >

Motherfucking goon got on the phone and told state officials and others to "find" him votes. Trump is the all-time trashiest. May he find his jail dumpster home someday. >

He looks like a bag of Shit that was dragged through a field of Shit >

Ok, hear me out. I know everybody if frustrated by how long this is taking. But there’s one thing we all need to keep in mind - not one of the investigations has ended with no charges filed. They’re all still going strong. There was one in New York in which the prosecutor didn’t run for re-election, and the new guy stopped the investigation - but if I’m not mistaken he has since started it back up again. But Georgia is done and she as much said she’s going to be indicting people.  The document stealing is still going. Biden having documents might have affected that one, but now that Pence had some too, and since he and Biden both turned theirs in immediately, I don’t see any impediment.
The Jan 6 investigation is huge but certainly is still ongoing. Now the Michael Cohen case is heating up again. None of these cases is going away. Trump is still involved in all of them. I think we would be justified in being cynical if prosecutors were coming out and saying that Trump,was no longer a target, but none have said that. Nominating conventions are still more than a year away; there’s still plenary of time. >

Believe it when it happens. >

Trump went down to  Georgia looking for some votes to steal. >

Do it already. Justice delayed is justice denied. >

Yeah, yeah.   Same headlines “things may happen!!”   since 2016.    Its now 7 years and  he’s  sold nuclear secrets,  outed CIA agents,   tried to violently murder his VP,  instigated horrific televised on live tv  attack on the US government,   he’s installed his unqualified kids  in key government positions,   he’s sold pardons to the highest bidder,   he bribed and threatened and fired and stole,  he lied on public tv about covid ,  promoted his investment in horse dewormer as a snake oil cure.    NO consequences.   Nada.   Guy is running for president,  scot free. >

This is going to make Garland look like a clown. >

Nah, it was all about a single recorded phone call and they know exactly who was on the phone.
January 6th involved a members of Congress, state electors, advisors to the president, secret service, private attorneys, 50 plus senior White House officials including a sitting President, the wife of a Supreme Court justice, hundreds of hate group members, etc.
You have to have a ton of evidence to get everyone involved charged and have those charges actually hold up in court. They have charged 950+ people already and the next wave will be the people who orchestrated the insurrection in an attempt to keep Trump in power.
All other cases the DOJ has investigated were much smaller and simpler and some have taken over 5 years.  If they just charge Trump and don’t have the complete story they lose. As it is since this is a jury trial against a person over 74M people voted for it is going to be really hard to not have one juror try to save him. >


All other cases the DOJ has investigated were much smaller and simpler and some have taken over 5 years.

Like the campaign finance violations that Cohen went to jail for? That completed investigation? Or the well-documented obstruction of justice allegations from the Mueller investigation?
Garland hasn't acted because he doesn't want to. >

Garland hasn’t acted on those crimes because a much larger crime was committed days before he took office. 
When the mod boss you’re going after for tax fraud kills a bus load of people you divert your attention.
In Trump’s past crimes there’s no information or notes in those cases against Trump that Trump doesn’t have and is prepared for.   Even though it would have made sense to charge Trump for that stuff if January 6th never happened. >

Yes, so all Trump has to do is keep committing MORE crimes. Then he'll never get charged with anything.
There is nothing stopping Garland from charging Trump today with something and charging him with something else later when the next investigation is completed. Nothing at all, except politics and cowardice. >

If Trump actually is videotaped shooting someone in NY on 5th Ave that will be the new investigation (assuming it’s some how federal).  Just like when Trump refused to turn over classified documents.
If you want to win you allocate your resources appropriately.
Comparing the GA investigation to the DOJ’s investigation isn’t fair.  It’s like saying I saw on TV that someone built a house in a day, so the US Government should be able to build the tallest building in the world in a week or so. >

Oh yeah? How real? Because he's not in jail for the last 500 fuckin' illegal acts he committed, so why should I expect he face any consequences now? >

When you say “any consequences” do you only mean jail? Trump has lost or settled many criminal complaints in the past. Most recently the Trump Organization is on a losing streak in NY >

Let me put it like this. Right now, in utah at least, if you're caught with weed, you go right to jail. Like, they'll hold you in a cell until your trial whereupon it'll be over in a day and you'll be back in the cell or in a different cell.
This motherfucker raids the capital and he's still out there doing his fuckin' redneck nazi rallies. He lost some complaints? So what? He can grift his audience for as much cash as he wants. He needs to be in jail. Otherwise, who knows what kind of riot he can cause next? >

Fair, “any consequences” was broad and I was curious. In your example there’s a really clear cut law on the books “in possession of illegal substance” which is very easy to prove. In some regards we’re in uncharted waters and need to establish legally watertight intent to get a conviction. We have to establish what was known when to get at that intent. And our due process generally disallows holding someone while we figure that out unless that person is a clear and present danger. I dunno, maybe I was cynical enough at the start that I’m surprised where we’re at where multiple grand juries are issuing indictments >

I mean, it's honestly not just trump. The GOP should have been finished after the january 6th seditious insurrection riot. And while I'm happy the midterms didn't go that well for them, they still have way too much power for a party that happily spread the propaganda that led to it and still defends the rioters to this day.
And I guess there aren't any charges they'd be able to make stick, but they raided the white house and then still get to run the house of representatives into the ground. It's just... wrong, you know? >

I know, it's super frustrating. We're struggling as a society to counter disinformation campaigns while maintaining freedom of speech. Decades of propaganda have eroded some people's ability to discern fact from fiction anymore. And in that scenario, without clear crimes, voters in many places are literally incapable of holding politicians accountable with their votes. They either don't even see the information or disagree that a crime was committed or know both but don't care. I know I struggle to figure out how to improve that situation. Look at me here shouting into the void :-p Personally I feel like the road to accountability through the justice system at least isn't closed off at this moment. Ask me again when there are no court cases, investigations or active grand juries anymore >

It's hard to catch a greased pig, but maybe he's getting penned in. >

I'm now rooting for this one over the documents. Although, can the Governor of GA pardon him? >

GA RICO is coming! 
NY RICO and Federal RICO should be added to his rap sheet. Love to see this jackass in the GA state penitentiary or Rikers Island. Forget Club Fed… >

Keep expectations low and you wont be dissapointed.