>

Time to short tesla was maybe a year ago. I don't think it will ever go back where it was, the guy just destroyed his image that he was building.
Tesla Motors should boot him off from CEO position, accept that the hype is gone and simply accept that at this point they are just another car company that needs to compete with other manufacturers.
Look, they only lied about the capabilities of the system and folks died. I mean, jeez! : / >

You can't prove those people were ever alive. / >

Can't even prove they weren't dead before the Tesla hit them. Who's to say that the magnificence of the cars' 100% perfect and totally for real working self driving features didn't shatter their feeble minds and kill them on the spot?
You know, like seeing inside the Arc of the Covenant or perceiving Cthulhu. >

They would have died anyway (eventually) so same end result but much more efficient.  Tesla makes end of life care more efficient and less expensive. >

Reducing Medicare costs and saving money for John Q. Taxpayer!
So can John Q. Taxpayer get a tax cut?
No, we're gonna cut Elon Musk's taxes again. >

I've had the FSD beta for a year. Don't think it will ever be ready for primetime. Paying Elon to risk my life was not the intent. If I could get a refund, I would. Has done some dangerous moves. >

It'll never be 100% unless vehicles could talk to each other, univeral road signs/rfid marker/magnetic strips, etc. help with the guidance, etc. There's literally a lot of stuff involved before I would even trust it with my life. Just take the FSD out completely and make it more affordable. If they don't, all the new EVs are eventually going to bite into Tesla's overall profit. >


unless vehicles could talk to each other, univeral road signs/rfid marker/magnetic strips, etc. help with the guidance, etc.

Add in dedicated roads shielded from unexpected factors, like pedestrians, cyclists, and maybe even human drivers, and the problem goes from impossible to as trivial as building a model railway.
But all of these things - designated roads, RFID markers, car-to-car communications etc - can realistically only ever be a thing if the government or some centralized body regulates and standardizes the market. But since that is apparently an attack on everybody's personal freedoms and EV makers can't even agree on a universal charging standard, that will never happen.
Imagine if there was a certain brand of gas stations whose fuel nozzles would only fit in Hondas. That's the situation we're in when it comes to charging. >

Where I work, the decision was made to change all 4 inch wide pavement markings to 6 inch ones so lane assist tech could better see the lines.  So all road projects going forward and all repainting will be placing 6 inch lines going forward.  Not sure how that will work out with the 8 inch channelizing lines, or when the road is grey-white from snow and salt residue in winter. >


Not sure how that will work out with the 8 inch channelizing lines, or when the road is grey-white from snow and salt residue in winter.

It won't,  and never will. FSD in all weather conditions will be achieved when we place electro-magnetic paint or markers on the roadways to define lanes, and equip every vehicle with solid object detection like RADAR can do. 
As much as we want computers to be able to recognize all solid objects, they never will without hard reflectivity data. >

Oh, I know that, that's why I said lane assist, not FSD.  We had a working group that met with Foxconn so that the road improvement projects to support their (pick what is applicable) new/potential/maybe/promised/never-to-happen factory could have autonomous deliveries between locations.  This is change to the pavement marking was something that came out of it, because apparently cameras can't pickup a 4 inch lines on pavement that humans can clearly see. 
Sorry, I am a professional and I shouldn't let my sarcasm and scorn leak through like this. >


The Austin, Texas, electric vehicle maker cautioned that if the government decides to pursue an enforcement action, it could possibly have a material adverse impact on its business.

Ok? So? >


it could possibly have a material adverse impact on its business.

I mean... >

I’ve had at least a dozen different Tesla fans argue with me that the words “Full” “self” and “driving” do not mean what they mean in plain English.
There is no EULA, no “beta test” period that should protect Tesla from full responsibility when its “Full Self Driving” car kills someone.
Musk has publicly scorned regulators and the courts. He does not think they can impose penalties that will matter to him or Tesla’s shareholders. We will see if he’s right. >

It’s so fucking weird. 
I’ve said that, to the layperson, “autopilot” means something very different than what Tesla’s system is actually capable of, and the fanboys will chime in that “well ackshually, a pilot would know that autopilot doesn’t mean they can completely ignore the controls” or even that Tesla figured out how to do things with cameras that everyone else on the market needs LIDAR to make work. 
Or that Tesla is actually a tech company and the car business is really a small part of the overall value of the company despite it being >90% of their revenue. >

Yeah, they’ve been “well actually”-ing the name Autopilot for forever, despite Elon taking his hands off the wheel, despite the layperson meaning.
But trying to skirt around the words “Full Self Driving” is far harder. They’ll fall back on the “well it’s better than a human” which only works if Tesla is happily picking up the damages, civil penalties and insurance tab for everyone involved in an FSD-related wreck. From what I’ve seen, they’ve been bitterly fighting it instead.
Also, I suspect that they’re skating by a lot on Autopilot/FSD disengaging right before an accident. Not sure how much that will hold up to scrutiny. >

I can see the "autopilot" argument, no matter how bullshit i think it is, but the phrase "full self driving" is just impossible to reasonably interpret in any way other than the car driving itself completely on its own.  FULL SELF DRIVING.  I'd seriously love to see the mental gymnastics of someone trying to argue that FSD means anything other than exactly what it sounds like. >

How many people have to die before you realize it’s not working? >

Kinda sad because the car itself consistently tops safety rating charts. Hell, there was that guy who drove his family off a cliff the other week and everyone survived! They made a huge mistake using terms like “Autopilot” and “Full Self-Driving” when really it’s just advanced cruise-control. People put too much trust in an underdeveloped technology and that’s what causes problems. >


They made a huge mistake using terms like “Autopilot” and “Full Self-Driving” when really it’s just advanced cruise-control.

Huge mistake or intentionally misleading? >

Very intentionally misleading.  They don't even have a proper engineering department to test the self driving cars, it's all on the driver to test it out for them. You've got what 2 million cars on there test driving the self driving features for the first time. >

It is genius really. Testing out yourself would require staff, money, resources, and provision of liability. Instead, Tesla has convinced nearly half a million of its customers to PAY up to 15k USD to beta test this system on public roads for them! And if an accident occurs, liability lies with the customer's insurance! Plus they now have an excuse to openly mine driving data 24/7 from every Tesla on the road, whether it has FSD or not,  because it is all part of their autonomous driving development program. >

Not sure about others, but I really don't like the thought of being involuntarily part of Tesla's beta test, especially since I don't own a Tesla, and I'm not being compensated for the risk that a Tesla may determine that my Truck doesn't exist or that it can fit around it.
It also doesn't help that I've seen how the average motorist handles a work zone and nearly had my back broken by a car mirror, nearly hit headon and rear-ended at the same time because idiots couldn't follow the signs.  Or even seeing a car almost sideswipe a cop car because they couldn't pay attention and almost ran a worker over that was in a storm sewer inlet. >


Not sure about others, but I really don't like the thought of being involuntarily part of Tesla's beta test, ...

Did you have the same concern about literally every other manufacturer beta testing driver assistance features on public roads for decades or is Tesla special? >

Which other company has millions of civilians beta testing their driver assistance features with zero engineering oversight on public roads? If there are any, then the same outrage and disgust applies to them.
A real autonomous vehicle maker, Waymo, states this:

We test our latest software on our private test tracks where we can stage complex and rare scenarios in a safe and controlled environment.

Other manufacturers exhaustively test their features on private testing tracks as well. Mercedes, who actually has level 3 FSD, wasn't having their fucking customers beta test it.
For fuck sake. >


The Austin, Texas, electric vehicle maker cautioned that if the government decides to pursue an enforcement action, it could possibly have a material adverse impact on its business.

Ummm...so fucking what?

Messages were left Tuesday seeking comment from the Justice Department and from Tesla, which has disbanded its media relations department.

How do Elon companies still even exist? >

They disbanded the PR team when, as a result of musk manipulating stock prices via Twitter, the FTC said he can't post anything without the clearance if Tesla PR. >

"We tell Tesla customers that our Autopilot system, called Autopilot and marketed like its something out of the Jetsons, is not an Autopilot system, so its really the customers fault. In a way, we're the real victims here, blamed and drug through the mud because a few customers chose to die."

Elon Musk's spokesperson, probably >

You laugh, but that’s exactly what Coca-Cola tried to do when they were sued over making false health claims about VitaminWater.
They said “no reasonable person would be misled into thinking VitaminWater is a healthy drink.” >

Ah, the Tucker Carlson defense. >

Tesla owner here. Did not believe the car is capable of driving itself within a reasonable context/frame. Did not waste my money to pay for FSD. 
Tesla should not have been allowed to use terms AutoPilot or FSD. It’s only because the regulators are inept and tech-illiterate. Tesla should be forced to rename to something like CoPilot and refund FSD.
Otherwise, I love the car! >


Tesla should not have been allowed to use terms AutoPilot

Why not?  It quite literally does exactly what autopilot in a plane does. >

As a responsible driver, I would not trust Tesla Autopilot for more than 10 seconds on a sunny day at a straight-path uncrowded highway. Airplane autopilots lets pilots use bathroom while in use. 
There are many cases of Tesla Autopilots failed to avoid unsafe situations, or put the car into unsafe situations. Tesla themselves require drivers in full attention and put in measures (steering wheel sensor & internal camera) to enforce that. Think about it. They call it Autopilot AND put in measures to require constant human intervention!
Of course we have these Tesla drivers who cares little for the safety of others and themselves… >


Airplane autopilots lets pilots use bathroom while in use.

One pilot out of the 2 in a cabin has to be in command of the aircraft, at all times... >

You do have a point. Does it also require one pilot to hold control at all times and have monitoring mechanism to ensure that? >

No, for commercial aircraft there is always one pilot as 'designated pilot', and one monitoring, handling communications, and running checklists, but the pilot in control does not have to physically hold the yoke (or Stick).
But aircraft (again) do not fly close to each other, and commercial planes have an insane number of warnings that the computers will give the flight crew, including many vocal warnings about terrain avoidance, stall issues, ground proximity, and many others, that require immediate attention, even if the projected issue is far away (well, except fot the ground proximity warning). >

If you are really interested in these systems, i cannot recommend looking up 'Mentour Pilot' on youtube. >

elon: “well we promised hands free driving, and now that our steering wheel breaks off during use, we feel we have delivered. Oh and only 420 teslas burst into flame.  Hyuk hyuk hyuk.  I said 420.” >

The fanboys in the Tesla sub would rip me to shreds and downvote me to hell any time I would raise legitimate concerns about my 2020 Model 3 Performance (that I thankfully sold to a dealership at the height of the car crisis and made $20k on my sale!)
But my FSD was ANYTHING but FSD. And it would phantom brake, and randomly lock my car out of capabilities like basic cruise control. 
To top it off, they all made excuses for the piss poor build quality. Panel gaps, misaligned trim, and a fucking spoiler that flew off on the highway and thankfully didn’t cause some sort of final destination type accident. 
I hope Musk gets what is coming to him. So sick of hearing about him and his ilk. >

I usually have to turn off FSD within a few minutes; it’s downright terrible. >

The man-child is finding out there’s consequences for making claims that aren’t true.  Awww >

My parents got scammed into buying it for their car. I just don't want them to die >

If everyone in the US rode in self-driving cars, and it resulted in 30,000 deaths per year, then we would have fewer automotive deaths per year than we do right now. >

Not quite accurate, currently self driving cars are only rated for the easiest of conditions, switching to human drivers in severe weather or poor road conditions. This presents a bias in the data because that means the self driving is only getting rated on those safer conditions and then being compared to humans driving in all conditions. >

What's not quite accurate?  You didn't even contradict the thing I said. >

because if everyone in the US rode self driving cars they'd either just not go to a lot of places (many rural people might be entierly unable to go anywhere) or there'd be far more than 30,000 deaths as self driving cars fuck up in conditions they're unable to handle. >

Time to short Tesla. He is going to say something stupid.