>

Would you agree that it has not been a net benefit for many of the women that have participated willingly, begrudgingly, or unwilling in the industry?
This is like saying that it would be a net benefit for society for x person to take one for the team.
For example, would it be a net benefit to society if we took all of Jeff Bezos's money and evenly distributed among the population? Arguably yes. Would it be a net benefit to Jeff Bezos? No.
You talk about the "net" benefit to society from porn, but do not talk about the negative effects it has. Porn has a few major downsides as it works today. 
First, the porn industry itself sucks. There is a ton of trafficking, even more taking advantage of vulnerable people, and most of the money goes to terrible people. A lot of former pornstars have called out the industry for it's problems, but nothing has really changed. We need a lot of regulations and updated ethical standards for porn production that have not been happening. Second, while porn does cause a needed release for some, it also leads to addiction and negative outcomes in others. People who consume too much porn definitely suffer for this in their personal relationships and social situations. And, on top of that, it can teach some pretty terrible lessons about sex ed and general expectations for sex. 
Now, I'm not going to say that due to all this that porn is bad and should be banned or anything. But I think it is at least enough to say that it's not a "huge net benefit". The benefits you pointed out are real and definitely big, but the weight of the negatives should be acknowledged as well. Porn is complicated, both good and bad, and discussions about it's impact on society need to be kept in that perspective if they want to be productive. >

In reference to your first point: you’re describing issues that happen w most industries as long as it’s possible. The clothing industry is (in a lot of instances) reliant on things like child labor and even people in work camps.
The issue of powerful people taking advantage of others isn’t really specifically an issue with porn, and while I absolutely think it’s something that needs to change, if you set that bar for “bad” as that a giant amount of (if not the majority) of industries are net negatives because people suck and will usually fuck others over for personal success >

While I agree that as currently organized, a lot of business currently sucks, no other industry has such a problem with human trafficking as porn does. Human trafficking is, at least in my opinion, a crime that can be talked about in the same breath as murder and rape in terms of severity. It's basically slavery, and since it involves forcing people into sex work it's also rape. Until we can cleanse porn of that problem, there is no way I can feel comfortable saying the porn industry is comparable to clothes or whatever else. Nor can I say it has a huge net benefit to society. >

I mean my point was that you basically have people in concentration camps forced to make clothing (realize that specific label has a lot of other connotations so I was trying to use other terms)
Now this doesn’t make issues of human trafficking/SA in porn any better, but I do feel like it’s really inconsistent to say they’re not even comparable and just leave it at that >

Okay - so say I concede that point. The terrible things done in service of making our clothes is bad. I certainly do agree with that, child labor and sweat shops are abhorrent. The benefits of getting clothes are still numerous, from modesty to keeping warm to personal expression. So, when we talk about the clothing industry, we should be nuanced and acknowledge both the good and the bad.
Same goes for porn. Just because it has similar problems to other industries does not mean we should sweep it's issues under the rug. We should put greater protections in place for the people making our clothes, and we should put greater protections in place for the people making our porn. Again, I hold that there is no clear net benefit. >

Yeah I’m not trying to convince you there’s an indisputable net positive, I’m just pointing out a smaller issue with what you were saying. I agree that we need a lot more regulations around porn, like we do with tons of other businesses >

Porn is one potential reason that serial killer populations have decreased, but it is not the only one.  The three that spring to mind are:


Abortion has prevented many children that would have been born into abusive homes from being born in the first place.  As childhood abuse is a major factor in becoming a serial killer, many simply may not have been created and subjected to those environments.


Leaded gasoline causes serious mental issues in those exposed.  The discontinuing of leaded gas may have stopped people with the propensity to become killers from getting the chemical "nudge" they needed to cross the line.


Criminology and forensics is much better than it was before.  Getting away with murder isn't as easy these days, and law enforcement agencies share information better than they did in the past.  Serial killers still exist, but they are caught before they can become "serial."


Can you argue that your theory is more valid than any of the three I proposed? >


Abortion has prevented many children that would have been born into abusive homes from being born in the first place.  As childhood abuse is a major factor in becoming a serial killer, many simply may have been created and subjected to those environments.

In countries with abortion long before the internet, there was still much higher violent crime. There is still the same reduction in violent crime in countries where porn is legal and abortion isn't.
​

Leaded gasoline causes serious mental issues in those exposed. The discontinuing of leaded gas may have stopped people with the propensity to become killers from getting the chemical "nudge" they needed to cross the line.

I've never heard this position. I'd need some more materials provided. I don't know that children are spending much time huffing gasoline, and I'm not sure there's much evidence to suggest that serial killers are necessarily gas huffers.

Criminology and forensics is much better than it was before. Getting away with murder isn't as easy these days, and law enforcement agencies share information better than they did in the past. Serial killers still exist, but they are caught before they can become "serial."

I don't think that getting caught would necessarily prevent someone from acting on these impulses. The level of sexual repression they've often suffered is at such a severe level that their impulses often over take their logical consequence assessing part of the brain. All of the known serial killers that I've studied, began with an initial act of explosive impulsivity after a life of sexual repression, followed by a period of trying desperately to recreate that sensation again (the serial part). Porn provides a "release" valve for sexual frustration, that they can open periodically to reduce the likelihood that they would act out of sexual frustration. >


I don't think that getting caught would necessarily prevent someone from acting on these impulses

It's wouldn't. I don't think there's a clear distinction between first-time offenders and would be serial killers. The reason there are fewer serial killers is that they have no chance to make their crimes serial. >


It's wouldn't. I don't think there's a clear distinction between first-time offenders and would be serial killers. The reason there are fewer   
serial killers  
is that they have no chance to make their crimes   
serial  
.

DNA is great and all, but not all crimes leave it.  It'd be pretty easy to make sure you don't leave any evidence. TV has a way of convincing people that forensics are way more advanced than they actually are. Like it doesn't take much to burn a body. >


Like it doesn't take much to burn a body.

Actually, it does. It takes a very hot fire burning for quite awhile to reduce a body to ash. Even then, there is still forensic evidence left. >

"Porn is a huuuuge net benefit to society...,"
While others have covered the topic on rape and murder, I'm just going to stop you right there.
I can only speak on my behalf but my body image and self-esteem have never been worse because of porn. I will probably never have a happy sex life because of porn. My mental health has done a tailspin into the abyss because of my sex life and self-esteem, no thanks to my exposure to porn and from relationships with porn addicts. >


My mental health has done a tailspin into the abyss because of my sex life and self-esteem, no thanks to my exposure to porn and from relationships with porn addicts.

Going to need you to elaborate on this or I can't understand the statement you're trying to make. How has your self-esteem been affected by porn, and what about your partners watching porn ruined your relationship? >

Yes, my self-esteem has been affected by porn. Other women may say they have felt affected by what they see in fashion magazines or on the runway. I never felt blackpilled by the fashion industry but I have by the sex industry. There are no women who look like me represented in porn, unless it's to mock or humiliate. 
What about my partners watching porn ruined my relationship?
Being a 23 year old virgin, meeting up with a guy from the internet, having me strip naked within minutes of meeting me and telling me everything wrong with my body and then complaining that I, a sexually repressed 23 year old virgin, was not performing up to par with the porn he had watched. I ended up not losing my virginity because I wasn't worth it according to him.
Now I am 34 years old and actively only seek out men who think I'm too fat for them because to me that's how a "real man" thinks. >


Now I am 34 years old and actively only seek out men who think I'm too fat for them because to me that's how a "real man" thinks.

You want men to think you're too fat for them? >

I don't want them to, but this guy I used to see when I was 23 left a huge impact on my mentality that no one knows about other than on Reddit.
I'd rather men like my body and think I am beautiful, but I know a "real man" wouldn't ever think that. When a guy says he likes my body or says that I'm beautiful, I think he is either lying or has lower standards than your average man. >

Welcome to adulthood. We all suffer with self-image and think that way, also not porn's fault. Hollywood, Social Media, and Advertising often have a lot more to do with this than porn. >

"Welcome to adulthood".
It seems to me that you're unwilling to understand other people's point of view on this judging by your dismissive  attitude. You ask questions, I answer them, and then you dismiss them.
I am too insecure to function. I will never experience a happy sex life or good relationship because of that experience I had. No, it is not normal for someone to cry themselves to sleep regularly over their appearance and their sexuality, two things I ruminate over every waking second of my life. I struggle with finding sexual partners and whenever I do get the chance to be sexually active, I turn them down because I don't think I'm good enough for them.
Porn is media just like every other one of your examples. Once again, I'm just one person but I'm sure I'm not alone. "Sex sells" is a common mantra for a reason. Does it really matter whether it's on TikTok or a commercial or porn, when the messaging is the same? >


I am too insecure to function. I will never experience a happy sex life or good relationship because of that experience I had.

That's dramatic as hell and sounds like more of a you thing, many people function with body images. Myself included, you'll be fine just put yourself out there and know that everyone's ugly from the right angle. >

Why should I have to prove it to some internet stranger how unhappy I am? I am stuck inside my head 24/7 over my looks and sex life, and how I "measure up" compared to other women. I am miserable. I am bitter. I am jealous. I have resorted to self-destructive behaviors to cope with not being good enough for most men.
I am "stuck" between resenting men for consuming this type of media and thinking that's just what a "real man" is, being drawn to it, and getting hurt every time.
I have some mental scarring from that encounter when I was 23, and some smaller occurrences after that with other men in my early 20s complaining that I didn't perform oral sex like a porn star or they were watching porn to get hard enough for me to go down on them. 
I have since lost my virginity but my sex life has been nothing but just memories of myself trying way too fucking hard and getting burned by it. >

Even if it has had some benefits. That doesn't mean that porn has had a "huuuuuge net benefit".
You have to consider the net negatives
1) There is growing evidence that consuming porn causes ED.
2) There is a ton of evidence that consuming porn causes people to have unrealistic expectations of their partner. Often causing them to be single.
3) There is SOME evidence that it is bad for male testosterone levels. Especially when they use porn very frequently. But this one is far more contested than #1 and #2.
4) Pornography as a business model is notorious for rape and abduction. Which is really fucking bad if you think about it. Imagine being a sex slave for 5 years. How that would affect your psyche? How about your loved one's? 
You really have to weight the pros and cons. I think porn is fine if consumed in small amounts. Similar to alcohol. But it can become problematic if you overuse it. It's almost like it's own type of drug. >


There is a ton of evidence that consuming porn causes people to have unrealistic expectations of their partner. Often causing them to be single.

Do you have a source for that? >

Thanks, I'll read it when I get home from work.

It also makes sense from an intuitive level.

I guess? But isn't that basically the "video games cause violence" argument? Do you think action movies make us bored? Does watching musicals create unrealistic expectations as to people's improv dancing skills? Why would porn be somehow special? >

Porn + Secluded lifestyle
The triggers for violent behavior are different. If you give a guy who's thinking about shooting up a school GTA 5. He might have a venue to express his aggression. And it might actually help the situation. Or it may give him ideas on what to do with that aggression. Which can cause a tragedy. 
I think there is some truth to "video games cause violence". It's just not a simple 1 to 1 relationship like that. >

Porn doesn't make men view women more sexually, that would happen regardless >

Porn has been a controversial topic for decades, and the debate over its societal benefits is far from settled. The statement that porn is a huge net benefit to society and that it has reduced violent sexual crimes more than any effort fails to take into account some of the potential harms associated with pornography consumption.
First, there are numerous studies linking excessive exposure to pornography with adverse mental health outcomes such as depression, anxiety and low self-esteem in both men and women. Additionally, research suggests that viewing porn can lead people towards objectifying others or even engaging in risky behavior such as unprotected sex or sexting without proper consent. It's also important to note that many forms of modern day porn contain content which could be considered degrading or violent towards women - something which should not be overlooked when considering its overall impact on society at large. 
Finally, while there may have been an overall reduction in certain types of sexual crimes due partly to increased access to online pornography (as suggested by recent evidence), this does not necessarily mean these behaviors have disappeared altogether; rather they may simply have shifted form one medium (such as physical assaults) onto another (online harassment). In order for us truly assess whether Pornography provides a net benefit we must consider all aspects including its potential negative consequences before drawing conclusions about what role it plays within our culture today . >


Okay I guess I forgot to read this part last time. I didn't realize this was an incel post. I don't really know what "male sexuality" is. Do you mean penis? 

What I'm referring to is the tendency for women to vilify male sexuality, especially more back when there was more serial killers. They often came from incredibly religious backgrounds, an taught that "masturbating and porn is a sin", and doing things like bathing their young boys in scaling water to clean the sin out of them. Beating the shit out of your kid every time they express a sexual impulse, or masturbate.  
In modern times it's slightly less horrific, but still there exists an undertone that female sexuality is something to be celebrated, but male sexuality is creepy and vilified. Young men who haven't learned their game yet, fumble and look silly, and are called creepy, but are also simultaneously required to make the first move.  That attempting to convince someone into sex through mutual agreed upon discussion "coercion and inherently rape", while ignoring that women standing at the side of the road attempting to coerce men into sex for money is not. 
Also watch who you call an incel. I'm a married man with a wife and children. I just care about reducing possible harm to them, and porn does that. >


That was a societal thing. Not a woman thing.

It was a part of woman society. Women were home with their kids raising them, while their husbands either fought and died at war, or worked such shitty jobs they died young in workplace accidents, alcohol consumption.

Because women were oppressed and men were not. Lock and key comparison mean anything to you? It's an awful, sickening comparison people used.

That's complete bullshit. Men have been oppressed too, not all men are CEOs making 700k a year, most have historically been slaves, with slightly more freedom at times than women. 

Where? They're just inexperienced. If they are creepy about it then yes, they are creepy.

Proving my point. 

You don't seem to know what coerce means. Coercion is rape, you're pushing someone into it. A prostitute is not

Convincing someone through a conversation to have sex is not coercion, but people apply the term "coercion" to it. A husband asking their wife to have sex, getting know, then later trying again and not being denied is not rape. Women are gatekeepers to their own vaginas, they're biological duty is to select their partners wisely. A man's biological duty is to convince women that they're, the wise choice through competence. Providing a non-coercive argument for sex  is not rape, but women are branding it as such. Every time a discussion about sex where one party is not on the same page as the other and the other side is convinced is not rape, calling it such is a disservice to ACTUAL victims of real rape. >


Most of the most heinous criminals in the world acted out of a place of mental health problems suffered from sexual repression. 

Source?
That needs a hell of a source, because that's a hell of a claim that has 0 backing. 

Porn provides sexual release without risk of harm to victims

Rape is not generally about sex. It's about power, violence, anger, misogyny, etc.

I'd argue the regularly available internet porn is the reason for the reduced capacity for serial killers.

...what "reduced capacity for serial killers?" What does that even mean? There's plenty of capacity and plenty of serial killers.