>

Modern-day Republican “logic” in action.
The debt ceiling is not new spending its financial obligations that both parties in the past have already passed and signed off on. If they waned to cut spending they should have not voted for past cost or n the first place.Not raising the debt ceiling is like refusing to pay youre mortgage. >

Which is such a strange issue, considering the 14th amendment states:

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law[...] shall not be questioned. >

So, why doesn't the treasury just operate as if there is no debt ceiling and let someone sue and bring this to the Supreme Court to declare this whole nonsense unconstitutional... is what a naive person might say. An honest person would say because the ideological bat-shit crazy Supreme Court will fuck the country any way they can to put party over country as they always have. >


So, why doesn't the treasury just operate as if there is no debt ceiling and let someone sue and bring this to the Supreme Court to declare this whole nonsense unconstitutional

I believe that is the plan.

is what a naive person might say.

Tanking the global economy isn't good, for even the compromised Roberts Court. >

I have no faith they would save us.  The GOP want something, Roberts delivers.  Anyone who repeats the falsehood that the dude is a moderate conservative hasn't been paying attention.
But I like you optimism. >


The GOP want something, Roberts delivers.

Roberts doesn't have the ability to add to legislation; he can only reinterpret it in their favor. Even if he somehow convinced the Court to rule that the debt ceiling argument was valid, the time spent awaiting a verdict would cripple the global economy. >


Roberts doesn't have the ability to add to legislation; he can only reinterpret it in their favor.

Functionally this is the same thing, the SCOTUS can absolutely say the Constitution obligated such and such thing >

Plus there have already been SCOTUS cases where Robert’s majority rewrote legislation to suit their agenda especially regarding labor law. They blocked class-arbitration even when corporations hadn’t put those restrictions in their contract boilerplate. The court behaved like a corporate defense association conference and rewrote everyone’s contracts retroactively for the policy outcome that isn’t in the law at all. >

Stock market drops 20%, GOP gets an earful from their billionaire overlords, and debt ceiling issue resolved. 
Let it play out. >

But they can purchase tens of millions in puts... How can they lose??? >

None of that will matter?  If we default, our money isn’t worth the value it’s printed on, it’s all worthless.  Unless they payout with a precious metal, those puts are worth Jack shit >

It’s not worth the value that is printed on it anyway. That’s what inflation does. It makes your money worth less then it was. >

Yes, but we’re talking about defaulting.  Inflation doesn’t mean anything if you’ve defaulted.  The currency is worthless, unless people decide that it’s still worth something, which won’t happen. >

To be honest at this point I don’t care. >

That's what they want. I struggle every day with caring about it, then i watch the handmaids tale and I'm empowered to continue the fight to never let the oppressor win. >

They will have new oppressors if the US defaults on debt; they don’t understand scope >

Exactly >

Somehow the media will spin this as Democrats' fault when shit inevitably hits the fan. >

My parents' go to whenever the repubs do something like this is always "they're protesting whatever the Democrats are spending the money on" or, if it's a bill, "they're voting against all the pork in the bill" >

It's funny when you ask them for specifics on any topic. For example, ask them "what is the pork in the bill?" The ensuing stammering makes me literally laugh in their face every time. >

Which, for my parents, is always "I don't know, I didn't read it, but I'm sure there's something" which is a fruitless argument >

Y'know, when you have 435 Representatives, 100 Senators, one President of the Senate and one President of the United States, there will always be provisions any individual does not like.  It is the nature of governing large populations: compromise >

For example, the bill that have biden a button to control the prices of eggs and gas. >

That was Sen Brian Schatz, Hawai‘i's senior US Senator. >

thank you for including the ‘okina! >

I am also a fan of proper spelling and grammar. 
I did not know, however, that it was called an ‘okina. Thanks for giving me today’s factoid! >

Good. Now they need to really start the messaging surrounding the Two Santas Strategy and how these threats from the GOP are part of the playbook they’ve been using to manipulate voters for decades.
“The only thing wrong with the U.S. economy is the failure of the Republican Party to play Santa Claus.” – Jude Wanniski, March 6, 1976
“The stock market is falling, in part a reaction to GOP threats to shut down the government: it’s all part of their plan.
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen last week warned us that the GOP is about to use Jude Wanniski’s “Two Santa Clauses” fraud again to damage Biden’s economy and our standing in the world. And, sure enough, Mitch McConnell verified it when he said last week there would be “zero” Republican votes to raise the debt ceiling.
Yellen responded yesterday by telling The Wall Street Journal that if the Republicans force a shutdown of the U.S. government like they did to Obama in 2011, “We would emerge from this crisis a permanently weaker nation.” But the GOP is adamant: they have their strategy and they’re sticking to it.
Here’s how it works, laid it out in simple summary:
First, the Two Santas strategy dictates, when Republicans control the White House they must spend money like a drunken Santa and cut taxes to run up the U.S. debt as far and as fast as possible.
This produces three results: it stimulates the economy thus making people think that the GOP can produce a good economy; it raises the debt dramatically; and it makes people think that Republicans are the “tax-cut Santa Clauses.”
Second, when a Democrat is in the White House, Republicans must scream about the national debt as loudly and frantically as possible, freaking out about how “our children will have to pay for it!” and “we have to cut spending to solve the crisis!” Shut down the government, crash the stock market, and damage US credibility around the world if necessary to stop Democrats from spending money.
This will force the Democrats in power to cut their own social safety net programs and even Social Security, thus shooting their welfare-of-the-American-people Santa Claus right in the face.
And, sure enough, here we are now with a Democrat in the White House. Following their Two Santas strategy, Republicans are again squealing about the national debt and refusing to raise the debt ceiling, imperiling Biden’s economic recovery as well as his Build Back Better plans.
And, once again, the media is covering it as a “Biden Crisis!” rather than what it really is: a cynical political and media strategy devised by Republicans in the 1970s, fine-tuned in the 1980s and 1990s, and rolled out every time a Democrat is in the White House.”
This was written in 2021, but it could’ve been written now. Or at any point since the 70s dems have taken over. It happens every time. >

Upvote for Two Santas >

Good.  We do not negotiate with terrorists. >

I wonder if somebody could make a bot that people could sign up for that would send like a daily email to every democrat politician saying something along the lines of "me as a citizen and voter requests for you to never vote alongside the Republican terrorists" with like links to the Republicans openly referring to themselves as domestic terrorists.
Like a few thousand of those emails daily might encourage Democrats to work alongside the people and not alongside literal terrorists. >

I don’t think mass bot-spamming the exact same thing will be an effective way to get eyes on it. It will (rightfully) be auto-filtered to spam and could be written off as just a couple people hiring a bot farm. >

Republicans want to hold the American economy hostage so they can demand a ransom. This kind of ultimatum does not have the best interests of most Americans in mind, unfortunately, most Republican voters won't see it that way. >

Trump did this with the government shutdown remember? Working Americans went weeks without a paycheck because trump was holding the government hostage to argue with the dems >

Have any of the modern fiscal hold ups been the work of Democrats? >

In exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing,” Schatz said in an interview with The Daily Beast. “You don’t get a cookie. ... You’re just a person doing the bare minimum of not intentionally screwing over your constituents for insane reasons.”
Asked about GOP calls that Democrats join Republicans at the negotiating table, the Hawaiian senator added, “We have to tell them there is no table.edit. No fucking tables >

Good. The debt ceiling threat is a gun that Dems know the GOP can't actually use. >

Republicans are a bunch of fucking terrorists who are going to hold the entire nation hostage in order to pass their incredibly unpopular and incredibly insane policies.  I fucking hate them so much.  Republicans are our enemies. >

Stay strong Dems.  Don’t give in to terrorists. >

That is the correct response. >

We don’t negotiate with terrorists >

You get nothing! You lose! Good day sir! >

I propose that every dollar reduced has to be offset by a dollar in revenue. Start with the Trump tax cuts. Then do the Bush tax cuts. 
Conversely - the answer is no. >

Good.  The GOP has become accustomed to bullying people.  Someone needs to say "enough". >

This is the way.  Tell the Republicans that you will vote for a clean debt ceiling increase.  If they want to add a bunch of stuff to it, they can do it without Democratic votes. >

Ideally dems would say, "Tell ya what we will work with you to reduce the deficit by getting rid of the 2017 tax cuts.  Since you are worried about financial responsibility". >

This is about paying for what has already been spent. Why do republicans keep acting like it is new spending when they know darn well it is not?! >

Um, I’m going to go with “Disingenuous assholes do stuff for 1000, please” >

Mint the trillion dollar coin and tell the GOP to pound sand. Take one of their big sticks away so they can't hit you with it. >

Just don’t let Mr. Burns anywhere near it. >

The only thing we can tell from satellite imaging is that it's not on the roof. >

This will be treated exactly the same way as the McCarthy speaker vote. The Dems will vote sensibly, all of the republicans will be obstructionists and try to grandstand all day long then blame the Democrats for not negotiating with them despite the fact that they hold a majority. 
And eventually after the dust settles Donald Trump will declare victory was delivered from his enormous brain. MTG and Boo-boo will Roshambo to decide who’s the heel and who’s the face for this round. Gaetz’s head will get even larger and stupider looking. Gym will fit 300 words into the space where 50 would comfortably fit while saying nothing whatsoever in relation to what the hell is going on. >

Excellent response. Stick to it. If the Republicans want to crash the economy, they’re gonna do it regardless. You could give away the bank and it still wouldn’t be enough. Don’t waste the time negotiating; the R’s don’t know how. >

If they take a government credit system hostage, does that mean the House is a domestic terrorist cell? >

Yes, except we aren’t allowed to call them terrorists because they are white Baptists. >

Who even has time for these children? America has real crises (multiple) to deal with. From trans genocide, the resurgence of anti-semitism, the new surge of anti-Asian hatred, existing systemic racism and sexism, assaults on LBGTQ+ people as a whole, the mass shooting epidemic, the twin health care affordability and accessibility crises, the many problems private equity firms are continuing to cause, the impossible housing system, inflation, global warming, three airborne simultaneous pandemics, the continuing airline meltdown, domestic terrorists shooting up America’s power substations, disaster relief for wherever the crazy weather is today, the class warfare, and the red states that want to go back to leaded paint, asbestos insulation, and segregation.
Deal with REAL problems and stop wasting America’s time, you moochers. We need to defund professional obstructionists! >

Sorry, no time for those things. America's resources need to go towards combating the existential threat the GOP has been warning us about: Drag queen story time >

bUt WhAT aBOuT hUnTEr BIdeN!? >

In some cases, "we don't negotiate with terrorists" needs to be true. >

Tell the would-be hostage takers to go pound sand. >

The GOP will destroy this country if it means owning the libs. >

No ice cream for you, Jack >

Republicans aren't reading the room. >

Good. Don’t negotiate with terrorists. >

I see news about this exact thing happening about every year or two. Has the US ever considered adopting a method of running its accounts that isn't completely disfunctional? >

Plenty have considered it. The idea of just getting rid of the debt ceiling is legal and doable. The only issue is, voters don't elect enough normie establishment Democrats in order to enable that - instead the Dems needed to rely on support from hardcore antiestablishment moderates like Manchin and Sinema, so eliminating the debt ceiling (or increasing it so much to the point where it wouldn't be an issue anymore, which is basically the same thing) just wasn't an option
Hopefully in the future, voters will eventually make better choices there >

There is an alternative, and I think Biden might be up for it. The Fourteenth Amendment, in section 4 says: 

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. 

Congress already appropriated the money that was spent and that will be spent. If meanwhile we hit the debt ceiling, well, so what? The Constitution prohibits defaulting on our debt. Biden could ignore the debt ceiling and just keep right on going. The R’s would howl bloody murder and run to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court would probably order Biden to stop spending. So what? How would they enforce that? How would they pay for enforcement? >

I sincerely doubt that Biden would just pull a Jackson on the SCOTUS, and ultimately it's probably for the best - we don't need to cause a constitutional crisis and force the GOP even more to the far right in reaction, which that would likely do. But the coin thing might have some chance of working and passing constitutional muster, at least >

/“In exchange for not crashing the United States economy, you get nothing; You don’t get a cookie." 
HAS to be McGovern who said that. >

How come Republicans Representative seem to hate the US so much. >

Because they work for the Fucking Russians. >

Everything is seen as an opportunity for a scam and a grift with this gqp cult. >

Why doesn't Biden just say he is ordering the trillion dollar coin? Defuse and delever the Republicans' position. Now what? >

Republicans put themselves in a lose/lose here. Let the country default, they look like the assholes, and lose votes in the next election. Don’t let the country default and they alienate the MAGA morons who really have no clue what a default does. 
Either way they blink and extend the ceiling. >

Nah, if the country defaults, Fox News et Al will frame it as the result of "out of control Dem spending."
The GOP propaganda machine is astounding and the GOP base has proven critical thinking isn't something it does. >

I agree they’ll try, but Dems have to make it abundantly clear that it’s the Reps who want to take their SS and Medicare, welfare away. No such thing as a closed door negotiation. Let the people know whats on the line. >

Just let the Republicans who pass all these bills that cost money all year, but want to be seen as fiscal conservatives, kick and scream for a few days.  They get to save face and life goes on. >

You don't have children do you? How many supermarket tantrums have you observed >

Yup. Didn’t a former president say “we don’t negotiate with terrorists?” Same with traitors. We learned our lesson last time we did that >

Well done!  Negotiations must be in good faith. There is nothing to negotiate here. >

I'm willing to bake cookies and send them to Republican Congress people if they do their jobs. I don't think it'll help though. >

That’s how you strong arm Kev-O after he wanted the speakership so bad. Lose/lose for that jackass >

I have to wonder what the RR workers are thinking of their representatives now. Okay for the GOP to crash the economy but not the working man. >

Ni un sope! >

You Get Nothing! >

The Dems need to send a few to the Korbin Dallas school of negotiation. >

republicans always lose the debt ceiling fight.  they money was appropriated by congress.  don’t like it?  fight against the spending, not the debt incurred by the spending >

Lol that should be our new national policy with the republican party no cookies for domestic terrorists and insurrectionist so tired of their bs. >

They’ll negotiate. They always do. This is all part of the dance. >

I could see dems coming to the table if a wealth tax or higher marginal tax rates were on offer. >

i still remember when republicans had full control of Congress under trump and had the biggest shutdown of all time. it showed that they can't even negotiate amongst themselves (which we continue to see), and they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.
the wildest part was their base genuinely blamed democrats for the whole thing. >


they're willing to let the whole thing crash and burn.

that's the problem, they are willing, and they get praised by right wing media for doing so. >

Obama blinked, but we’ve learned since then that you simply do not negotiate on this. You don’t get to blackmail lawmaking with national default. The debt ceiling should not even be a procedure. You are authorizing the government to service money it’s already spent or has committed to spending from a budget bill separately passed.
If republicans want to make America default on her debts for the first time ever, so be it. They can explain their murder-suicide strategy. >

The Democrats have a spine?  Am I dreaming?  This can't be real.  I'm shocked!  Shocked! >

Democrats always had a spin in fighting for debt ceiling and government shutdowns. In 2021 McConnell and Senate Republicans tried pulling the same shit the House is doing now and they eventually had to backdown and concede to Democrats. McConnell conceded to the point where he even agreed to temporarily lower the threshold to break a filibuster on the debt ceiling from 60 to 50 (bill was a one time use) just to get this passed. 
If anything we need Democrats to use this willingness to fight for the debt ceiling and government shutdowns to other policies as well >


What makes the debt ceiling qualitatively different is that this isn’t a policy dispute. What Republicans are doing is manufacturing a hostage crisis, effectively telling Democrats that the GOP is prepared to harm Americans on purpose unless their demands are met. For all intents and purposes, it is a Republican extortion scheme.

This sums it up nicely. >

Who would ever have imagined that someone could perceive "negotiations" or "leverage" would be crashing the US economy.
What in the world.  Who puts up with these people.... >

I love it!  "No cookie for you!" >

Ohhhh we all know it will get raised again. 
Now what the economy will look like after it collapses is what I’m concerned about >

Fucking finally!
Don't negotiate with terrorists. >

Yeah, the Dems will cave. They always do. If they were able to stand up to the GOP, we wouldn't be in the mess that we're in. >

Never let a good crisis go to waste I guess…even if it is one you helped create…hell, especially if it is one you helped create. >

Your boss isn't a sovereign who can issue bonds or even print currency.   Comparing a business with a nation is ridiculous. >

I think we should send them cookies. Not very good cookies, but maybe some generic brand cookies? Who has the organization skills for this? Then we can send the democrats some really good local cookies from our own areas. I know just the place. >

Oreos are not that much more expensive than other chocolate sandwich cookie brands. Let's just send them Oreos and be done with it. >

That would mean cuts to Social Security and Medicare. Ain’t happening. >

I'd give them a "go fuck youself." >

"Republican extortion scheme" seems like a description of nearly everything they do. >

Are dems finally getting good at messaging? >

All the cookies in the world aren't going to get enough Republicans on board anyway.  The smart move is to start preparing for the default. >

So sick of republican politicians. You're in government. Fucking govern. >

Guess dems have to take their gas stoves! >

And people finally remembered why they voted for dems. >

Im pretty sure that’s the intention of Republicans so they can fool their supporters that it’s the Biden’s administration fault they are in this position. >

When you've got a party acting like spoiled children, you treat them as such. >

This isn't even about spending. It's about paying the bills for the spending that was already agreed to! >

The hell democrats? >

you mean republicans >

And the can gets kicked further down the road. Climate change + debt default is going to be a big sad >

Debt default isn’t a real thing. Nobody who owns the debt cares if it’s paid back by some random deadline. 
The debt ceiling is political theater that we imposed on ourselves so conservatives have a chance to gaslight their constituents about cutting social programs. >

That's not true at all. Government bonds have clearly defined periods where returns are guaranteed. It's entirely possible for the government to decide to default. A large percentage of our representatives are morons. Default by necessity is certainly not realistic, though. >

Fair. But I could default on my mortgage too if I told the bank “sorry, I decided buying this house was irresponsible I’m not gonna pay for it anymore” even though I can still afford my monthly payments. It’s moronic. >

By not negotiating, you are now guilty for crashing the economy >

Hahaha
"Give me your money or I'll kill you."
*Doesn't give money
*Kills
"I didn't murder him. He just refused to negotiate! It's his fault!"