>

You probably have classified documents too
I should check my closet for classified documents >

Apparently if you were in the White House or  Congress, yes, you should. >

Seriously, everyone had/has a security clearance. I wish we could make the distinction that not everyone is willing to sell out their government. Yes he had classified documents, and when they were found they self reported, however only 1 man had documents taken for a criminal reason, and when asked lied multiple times, and tried to cover it up. >

Wellll..... i guess i should go ahead and get rid of some of those red and yellow marked folders. >

You should destroy any electronic equipment (e.g. e-mail servers, Blackberries) and delete any Google accounts. >

I have a bottle of bleach under my sink, i'll be fine >

My mind read that as, "I have a bottle of bleach under my skin..." I was really impressed at your readiness to wipe things out. >

Getting rid of COVID and classified documents! What a double whammy! >


It is not yet clear what the documents are related to or their level of sensitivity or classification. Pence’s team plans to notify Congress on Tuesday.
Pence asked his lawyer to conduct the search of his home out of an abundance of caution, and the attorney began going through four boxes stored at Pence’s house last week, finding a small number of documents with classified markings, the sources said.

It seems like he's trying to do the right thing. Whether that's because it was a legitimate mistake or he was caught and is trying to soften the penalty remains to be seen. >

I'm willing to give Pence the benefit of the doubt as far as intent goes here. I gave this benefit of the doubt to Biden as well. They both seem to be cooperating and trying to ferret out any classified documents to turn them over to the proper government department.
Contrast this with Trump who refused to give the documents back, refused to allow a search, lied about there not being any more documents, and to this day is demanding that the FBI give him the documents back - calling them his "property."
I won't agree with Pence's politics and would never vote for him. On this point, though, he seems to be doing the right thing. >

Me too. I doubt that they do their own packing when they leave office. Someone put everything into file boxes and they moved them home and likely never looked at them again, then cooperated with the searches. This is completely different from Trump's behavior. >

It seems to me that the tracking process for sensitive documents is lacking. Our local librarian knows where all the books are but these documents seem to be floating around with no one keeping track. The system failed >

Which adds to the trump side of it, they had a list of documents they wanted back from trump. >

Yes, they knew he had some but it just looks like tracking needs to be tightened up given Biden and Pence has stuff no one seemed to be missing. >

Keep in mind classified and national secrets aren't the same thing. If Biden planned a surprise party for Obama, the fact that it was secret and he was VP would make any related documents classified. If he still had those documents in a dusty box today, he'd be in illegal possession of classified documents technically but it's be of no consequence and nobody would be tracking it. At the other end of the scale would be a briefing on a new prototype superweapon DARPA was working on.
The latter is why Trump is in trouble and why the National Archives knew they were missing. The former is likely what Biden and Pence found and this is only a headline because they're being honest and telling us they have them. >

Let's be honest it's only a headline because Trump had all his drama about it. This stuff with documents happens literally all the time for the exact reasons you described (the docs aren't important just made by someone who is) and likely isn't the news story people want it to be. >

This is getting so ridiculous. Check every past president and VP's house apparently. >

haha, you think it's limited to presidents and VPs. >

Someone check R Kelly’s closet! >

We should probably do that regardless. >

Eeew, these documents are covered in R Kelly doo doo water! >

Drip drip drip >

This is the remix edition, of the song about pissin >

The only thing to make my life complete is when I turn your face into a toilet seat >

I wanna piss on you >

Gimme some of that 'poo poo' >

I'd give anything to be a fly on Pence's head right now. >

Now we know what it was doing >

One thing that’s always bothered me about that scene (not counting the headphones flying off) is why he brings the cockroach so close and in full view of the people in the room. He could’ve just as easily gone up a table leg or whatever. Or maybe he’s not particularly smart, I guess. >

AUGUST 20, 2022:

Pence says he didn’t leave office with any classified material >

In the cases of Biden and Pence, I do believe that most of these are cases where things were just filed and packed away where they should not have been, copies of correspondence and low sensitivity information that hasn’t really been looked for. And probably the case for a good number of Trump’s documents as well.
What differs between the two of them and Trump, is that the National Archives and the FBI came looking for certain highly sensitive documents they knew Trump took, Trump’s team handed some over but lied about having the others. We know they lied because one member of Trump’s legal team or inner circle reported that they had lied, and security footage exists of them relocating the documents after the initial interview. 
Biden’s team on the other hand, self reported the documents they found immediately and have been cooperating with all search and hand over requests.
People will try to both-sides this, but there is a difference between the severity of crimes here. >

It is my firm belief that Trump took the documents with the intent to profit from them.  Biden and Pence took them without knowing, and just left them in storage. 
My evidence:  Trump is a shitbag who would do exactly this, and his behavior since this all happened is consistent with someone who's doing this. >

I’m not even sure they “took” them. Depending on what they are, it’s quite possible Biden or pence (because politics aside, they both took their jobs as VP seriously) originated the documents while at home and working. >

"So I was at home, writing a draft of what became the memo to another head of state about the upcoming visit and what I wanted to accomplish (obviously, this would be classified correspondence). It was late, I needed to eat and sleep, and in the morning, I had to clear my desk for a meeting and just scooped up everything and threw it into a folder for later sorting. Never got to the sorting part. Whoops." >

Where is my fainting couch?!  The scandal. >

4 years later:
FORMER VICE-PRESIDENT ADMITS TO CARELESS HANDLING OF CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS
Talking Head #1: "In the army they teach you to do the small things right so that you have the ethic to do the big things right. This is instilled into every recruit. His cavalier actions concerning classified documents disgrace the men and women who serve our great nation."
Talking Head #2:  "That may be a harsh, but I think the real question is Are the American people going to be satisfied with this "trust me I'm honest" policy from our politicians?
Talking Head #1: "The only honest thing a politician could say is "I'm a liar". Anyways, that's all the time we have for this national crisis which compromises our national security and lets our enemies come knocking on our door, we'll be right back after our sponsors."
Commercial : "Do you have anxiety? Are you worried about your future? We at Forgetisuticals LLC. might have the solution to your pain..." >

You fucking nailed it! >

This is a pretty good example of why the case against Trump was always more complicated than "he has the documents, go get him".
It's also the resistance to turning them back in, the declaration that he didn't have more, and where they ended up getting stored (and the lack of security there). >

And Trump trying to demand that the FBI to give back "his personal property" when referring to the classified documents. Biden and Pence clearly see the classified documents as government property that they accidentally took. Trump sees them as souvenirs that he can do with as he pleases because he was President once. >

It’s also the level of classification that those documents are.  Trump had documents that should never left a certain room, let alone the White House. >

It's cool guys, he declassified 'em just by thinking about it!👍👍 >

maybe Biden should use his psychic  president powers to declassify the docs too. >

NPR had a good report on how most classified documents don't need that label, but there's far more trouble when a document isn't classified than when it is and shouldn't be. So the people who handle these often will make them classified just to CYA. That said Trump had nuclear secrets in his house and pulled a LOT of BS. Everyone else has cooperated appropiately. >

This the one?
Fresh Air: Is The U.S. Gov't Designating Too Many Documents As Classified'? >

IIRC they said 3 things are marked classified every minute. >

And some of those are retroactive... who's gonna go check their desk for something that's classified today that wasn't last week? >

This is one part of the problem and without knowing what was found at Pence/Biden houses it's hard to say. These could literally be Unclassified documents that were retroactively classified, see Secretary Clinton's emails.
I cannot get excited about Pence or Biden's reveals as they have cooperated and it seems like this is just part of the onerous classification process at large.
Trump committed obstruction of justice though, it doesn't matter why he committed it, he committed it. People really need to separate this in their heads.
With that being said, clearly we need an overhaul of the whole classification system because this is super embarrassing. >

Has anyone checked in on Jimmy Carter? There are a lot of possible houses he could have left documents in. >

What about Reagan??? >

What about George Washington? >

Free pass for founding fathers >

At this point, I'm wondering who doesn't have some. >

I feel like Obama was probably super cautious about it since they were desperately trying to jump on him for anything
But ya everyone seems to be saying it's super common and the real test of character is what you do when they're found.
Do you screech and say you never had them? Or cooperate fully with the investigation? >

Also Trump deliberately took them on his way out. As always he stands alone as a true piece of shit. >

I don't like that this is whitewashing Trumps illegal holding and hiding of documents and refusing to return them... and missing documents in folders and some of his documents held sensitive compartmented information which could cause grave damage to national security. And nuclear secrets... >

It isn't. Trump was known to have them and refused to surrender them. Apparently it is common for documentation to be "left behind". The real question is what happens afterwards and how does the person that retained the documentation behave. Trump's situation is still waaaayyyyyyyy worse because he deceived and refused with intent. >

Exactly this.
Biden, Pence are cooperative. 
Trump is not.
Thank you, Mr. Pence, for providing a shining GOP example of what should happen.
Now, the case for charging Trump just became that much easier. >

Trump is pathologically incapable of ever admitting he was wrong or mistaken about literally anything. He couldn't simply cooperate and say he didn't know he couldn't take them or something... he had to start talking about conspiracy theories to frame him and how he declassified it all with his mind. It's pathetic. >

He could be driving, miss a turn and instead of going “oops I missed a turn”, he’ll tell you he’s taking a a different direction and now you’re nowhere near where you needed to be >

Now let’s check Kushner and Bannon, please. >


A lawyer for former Vice President Mike Pence discovered about a dozen documents marked as classified at Pence’s Indiana home last week, and he has turned those classified records over to the FBI, multiple sources familiar with the matter told CNN.

And just like Biden's team, and completely UNLIKE Trump's, he did the right thing and handed them over immediately, which makes this one also a non-story, as far as I'm concerned. At most, Pence some criticism for hypocrisy since he's been shitting on Biden, but that's it.
It falls under the "don't punish the behavior you want" principle. If the proper return of accidentally removed documents is punished, it incentivizes people to hide or destroy such documents in the future instead of returning them. >

Okay.
So like... obviously these are both very different from Trump repeatedly lying about having things, refusing to return them, and making clear efforts to hide them. 
But also we REALLY obviously need to entirely rethink our systems for handling, handing out, tracking, and getting back classified material. I've seen more careful control procedures over arduino kits at a community college. >

Jesus christ, we have better protocols for tracking the items we circulate from the library I work at. >

Honestly don't understand how they haven't have something like this in place for many decades now >

It's because classification is weird. Many of these documents are pretty much like your reimbursement receipts, W2s, daily planners, the meal options at the Naval Yard kitchen. 
All still classified, but like, most normal people lose those in a box in an attic on the regular. >

I’m just going to follow the Fox News narrative for Biden and call this treason. >

I've been hearing that it is very illegal for a former VP to have classified documents. >

And Senators, apparently! >

So is pence handling it the Biden way or the Trump way? >

To his credit, seems like the Biden way. He asked for his belongings to be searched. >

It also further distances them from Trump's case because he isn't out there on social media screaming about black helicopters and Gestapo. >

That's an unfair characterization. Trump would have called it Gelato. >

You're both wrong. It's gazpacho. >

See that wasn’t so fucken hard to do (Biden/Pence),
1) find classified docs in your possession/home
2) report said documents to appropriate agency(s)
3) return said documents promptly
What’s Trumps fucken excuse now for not returning the classified docs in his possession/home except being a POS? >

I am guessing they could find documents at almost every single person in the governments house that would be classified in some way.
I think finding them and removing them is the right thing to do jo matter who has them but I think maybe we should somehow distinguish “how classified” these documents are.
There is a huge difference between a company that has a government contract and nuclear codes or a list of CIA agents names. 
Also volumtarily turning them in versus fighting their removal is a big difference.
Edit: When I said government I more meant along the lines of politicians and elected offices. >

Not mine. I took that shit seriously. >

You also weren't moving around all over the place while on call 24/7 like a Vice President would be, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. >

Lets be clear, Biden and Pence said it was inadvertent and it was a handful of documents. Trump had much more and he intentionally kept the records found as a sort of trophy. >

I'm starting to suspect the government is not very good at keeping track of classified documents. >

It's clear that the system we have now to track classified documents given to officials in very highest levels of government isn't functioning correctly. 
Trump was an outlier in that he was actively obstructing return of these types of documents, but it seems like they're all over the place. >


It's clear that the system we have now to track classified documents given to officials in very highest levels of government isn't functioning correctly. 

The system only tracks Secret and Top Secret >

I have no classified documents. Just saying. >

Hey FBI, this person's house ^ >

After he criticized Biden for having classified documents.