>

We've only had democracy since the Civil Rights and Voting Rights acts. It wasn't violence that got those passed. I'm not sure what your civil war fantasy looks like, but I can guarantee you democracy isn't the end result.
What is the other 75%? I would have thought the % for hateful conspiracy theory driven attacks are higher but I am wrong. >

To get to something useful I think they need to start sorting these shootings into targeted and random.  Showing up at the place you used to work and shooting your former boss and coworkers is not the same as showing up at a grocery store and shooting random strangers.  Sorting only by body count is lumping 2 very different crimes together and is going to muddy any data related to motive. >


Showing up at the place you used to work and shooting your former boss and coworkers is not the same as showing up at a grocery store and shooting random strangers. 

JFC thank you! I've been saying things like this for years but I talk to so many people that think any crime with a gun is essentially identical. >

It gets fucking blurred when the guy shows up a decade later to shoot at people he was paranoid at but hasn’t been in contact with in that decade, along with random people. >

Yeah, but in conversations outside of this particular thread, people conflate crime related shootings, family destructions, other spousal abuse, workplace violence, a gun being mishandled by a guard in a school setting, and a person setting out to commit mass the mass murder of kids/adults/whoever. Those are distinct enough to warrant more detailed attention. >

Because those people ~~believe~~ recognize the devastation caused by all these causes could be, in the vast majority of cases, dramatically lessened by having ~~less~~ fewer guns.
Like, people might not even die because they could create distance from their baseball bat crazy spouse.  The dude who tried to kill his family failed because he chose a car as the method.
Edited for proposed grammar corrections >

~~believe~~ -> recognize
It's not a belief, it's a fact. >

It's not a fact at all.
It's an assumption, a rational one based on the available data, but still not a fact.    
I'd argue that the more critical issue is that if we aren't enforcing the gun laws we do have, new laws aimed at reducing the availability or total number of firearms aren't likely to be enforced either.  
Step one is actually enforcing existing rules and shoring up whatever shortcomings are preventing that enforcement from taking place (manpower/tools/rules/etc.) >

First, from the article "In over one-quarter of all mass shootings, the attackers possessed firearms illegally." So it sounds like you're at best only able to address that minority of the instances with enforcement of illegal possession. Second, what enforcement do you believe would be most effective in preventing those? A lot of the laws around illegal possession are not preventative, they're simply additional charges/sentencing added on after the crime. >

If anybody wants to read the full report you can do so here
This seemed most interesting regarding the types of reasons and that most firearms were illegally obtained at the time…

Key findings include:
• Most of the attackers had exhibited behavior that elicited concern in family members, friends, neighbors, classmates, co-workers, and others, and in many cases, those individuals feared for the safety of themselves or others.
• Many attackers had a history of physically aggressive or intimidating behaviors, evidenced by prior violent criminal arrests/charges, domestic violence, or other acts of violence toward others.
• Half of the attackers were motivated by grievances, and were retaliating for perceived wrongs related to personal, domestic, or workplace issues.
• Most of the attackers used firearms, and many of those firearms were possessed illegally at the time of the attack.
• One-quarter of the attackers subscribed to a belief system involving conspiracies or hateful ideologies, including anti-government, anti-Semitic, and misogynistic views.
• Many attackers experienced stressful events across various life domains, including family/romantic relationships, personal issues, employment, and legal issues. In some of these cases, attackers experienced a specific triggering event prior to perpetrating the attack.
• Over half of the attackers experienced mental health symptoms prior to or at the time of their attacks, including depression, psychotic symptoms, and suicidal thoughts.
Mass Attacks in Public Spaces: 2016 - 2020
LIMITED TO OPEN SOURCE INFORMATION >

1/4 of the general population is driven by conspiracy theories these days. >

Yeah, QAnon literally has more adherents than many Christian denominations. 
I’ll never forget this case in NY a few years ago where one of the most shadowy mafia bosses left in NYC was murdered and everyone assumed it was a rival mafia hit.
Turned out it was his daughter’s boyfriend who came to believe the mafia boss was involved in trafficking children or some insanity. Literally wrote Q on his hand for his first court appearance. >

I need a link for that lmao. Q is succesful!! Kind of, not really >

The report essentially tells us that people with personal grievances and histories of troubling behavior are most likely to commit mass shootings. 
Basically what we already knew >

Well, I guess the USSS would know about being hateful, conspiracy theorists..... >

It's almost like 24/7 nutbag hate propaganda from Fox, Newsmax, Infowars, and the rest of the right wing idiots has a negative impact.
Who could have imagined. >

This was my exact thought. 1 in every 4 mass shooting could have been prevented if Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham, MTG, were held responsible for their hateful lies. 
You don’t see people on the left targeting white conservatives, or Christians for their political and religious beliefs. There’s one catalyst, and it’s the mouthpieces spreading the disinformation. >


You don’t see people on the left targeting white conservatives, or Christians for their political and religious beliefs.

Well, you do from time to time, but nowhere near the scale of right wing inspired violence. >

can you share some recent ones? >

It's hard to tell if you're trying to score Imaginary Internet Points with snark, or just have a crippling inability to use Google. 
But violence from people on the "left" (not a real thing in the US, since most Democrats aside from progressives are basically just centrist conservatives) hasn't been unheard of at Trump rallies, marches, etc.  People are routinely charged with a variety of assault and battery counts stemming from counter-protesting. You also have the man who conspired to kill Brett Kavanaugh last year following the Roe decision.
Again, the distinction only being made that saying "you don't see" is  not true. It's just also true that the balance of violence by the American Right far outweighs the American Center or Left. >

I think there's a difference between "I don't like Trump supporters so I'm gonna go punch some people at the trump rally" and "Tucker Carlson told me white people are being replaced so I'm gonna go murder a bunch of black people" >

US Secret Service's National Threat Assessment Center released a report studying 173 attacks that hurt three or more people (not including the attacker) in public spaces, from 2016-2020. Some data from the article:

Among the findings: Although a personal grievance of some sort was the single most common motive, one-quarter of the attackers studied from 2016 to 2020 were motivated by conspiracy theories or hateful ideologies. 

-

Hateful ideologies that motivated attackers included anti-government, antisemitic or misogynistic views. The authors also found nearly one-third of all attackers had evidence of planning their attacks. 
The typical attacker was a 34-year-old man motivated by personal grievances, rather than ideology, the report says.
Alathari said the grievances could be “perceived wrongs, most often related to personal issues, maybe health or financial issues, workplace issues, as well as issues with family and romantic partners.”

-

More than three-quarters of all attacks involved firearms, and over 80% of attacks that used guns resulted in at least one death, the report found. Most of the attackers used handguns, but one-third used “long guns,” a category that includes automatic and semi-automatic weapons. Attackers who used weapons other than guns fatally wounded victims in fewer than 50% of attacks.
In over one-quarter of all mass shootings, the attackers possessed firearms illegally. >

That’s a very wide brush. So anything conspiracy, incel, 4 chan, racism, sexism, anti LGBT, anti protest etc.  I’m surprised the number isn’t way higher. >

On top of this, it's not including all mass shootings. It's weird. There were way more. >

I think it depends on how you want to define mass.  I was reading some places consider two or more deaths others four.  I do think it gets skewed a lot.  If two people died from being hit by a car I wouldn’t consider that a mass casualty event; but maybe I’m weird. >

The rest have a good point. . ? >

75% of mass attackers don't have hateful ideologies? Make it make sense. >

The Republican Party is really one stop shopping these days. Not only do you get the white supremacy, LGBQT hate speech, QAnon dipshittery, etc. but they ensure you have access to weaponry designed to kill as many people as possible. >

Unironically I stand against nearly all of the Republican's values but I believe that owning weapons is necessary so that these nutcases dont oppress our country. The problem is these same nutcases want their own to have them. >

At that point civil society has broken down and the values you want to defend have become impossible to realize. Sectarian violence isn't going to save democracy. >

When half of your country supports the very decisions that will break down society through defunding social programs and removing individual liberties, democracy will not solve that. Violence isnt the best answer but it is a language oppressors only understand. It took a civil war to remove slavery, words and votes wouldnt have resolved it.