>

I was responding to why a deer hunter would shoot a coyote. But to that point it could have been a dark or neutral colored harness that didn't stand out much.
The fact that hunters were that close to marked trails and shot in their direction is fucked up. >

AND they shot at blaze colored clothing none the less. 
Nothing in nature is that bright of an Orange or Yellow, at least nothing you could legally be shooting at unless you’re a flower hunter. >

Took a course for my FID 10 years ago and one of the biggest rules was DONT FUCKING SHOOT UNLESS YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU’RE SHOOTING AT ffs >

Hunters are some of the most careless, entitled, blowhards I’ve ever encountered. I’ve seen them shoot across highways. >

Which part of "Be sure of your target and what lies beyond it" do these clowns not understand? >

On the other hand you can also say "One way to be sure a hunter doesn't shoot your dog is to make sure it's inside/leashed/fenced/chained/wireless fenced and not running around someones hunting property."
It's sad but coyotes are fair game and sometimes a misidentification of a species happens in the woods. Also a little known fact, is if your dog is harassing wildlife (ie chasing off deer) it's actually legal to shoot the dog on that facet alone, in some places. I'm not saying I would, but I know people that would. Why risk it?
At least it's not like that woman who shot and killed a husky because she thought it was a wolf and was so confident she even SKINNED the husky and posted it on FB. >

Who shoots a random pet dog they see in the woods, other than an asshole? Some people just like killing things. >

I pulled on the side of the road and got out for a dog that had walked across the street from it's house . Not only was it a long 2 lane road with no other cars around to block anything, I was also waving my arms like crazy telling him to slow down. This guy straight up looks at me and plows into this cute golden retriever, not stepping on the breaks once. Honestly traumatizing. There are people out there like that >

Holy shit, where was this? How horrifying. >

A lot of people in more rural areas sadly see dogs as a utility, not a pet. My family is from South Dakota. One year, many years ago now, while pheasant hunting one of the guys had a younger lab...couldn't have been more than a year old. It was the dog's first hunting season, so he was excited and on this particular trip kept running too far ahead and scaring up the birds before we were within range. 
One of the guys, older, was getting noticeably upset at the dog. After we called it a day, this older gentleman offered to buy the pup off the owner. The owner agreed, cash traded hands, and the old guy shot the dog on the spot. I'll never forget it. >

wtf, is america full of psychopaths in that area? My questions about whether eating dogs and cats and the hypocrisy around eating meat would not work on those people thats for sure.... >

Yea.. There's a reason I don't get along with my father's side of the family. >

Insane that Someone mistakes a dog for a coyote. LAZY damn hunters. If can’t confidently ID - don’t shoot. Jesus.
Also - if I’m hunting deer what good is it to shoot at other shit when I’m trying to be quiet? >


mistakes a dog for a deer

Article said he mistook him for a coyote >

Fixed it - was frustrated and posted in haste lol >

mistaking a dog for a coyote isn't nearly as crazy as mistaking one for a deer, though, so your outrage doesn't make any sense
missing the harness and collar, though, is pretty outrageous
ITT: people who can't read and want to argue with shit I didn't say >

It was an Alaskan Malamute. I’m not saying they couldn’t mistake it for a coyote but I’m skeptical. The dog looks like a domestic dog to me, if anything I’d mistake it for a husky. 
Pic of the dog >

Says a malamute mix and now that ive seen the picture, that actually looks MORE like a coyote than i was expecting. Not sure of its size, but the only thing that might clearly differentiate it as a domestic dog is its wider snout. Thats not too far off though, IMO. and coyotes can be light grey in color too.
I still dont disagree with you that he shouldnt have pulled the trigger unless he was certain. >

Sadly I think the real story isn’t being told here.
They adopted the dog from a wolf dog sanctuary, a place in NJ that specializes in adopting out said animals- and claimed it was a malamute mix? Yeah, I’m thinking PA is not pursuing charges on this because this animal wasn’t legal to own in PA to begin with. Wolves and wolf hybrids aren’t legal to own in PA, and haven’t been for quite some time. 
I’m not saying it’s right or okay to take any dog or hybrid out this way, especially not a loved family pet-  but basically, Fish and Game aren’t going to push too hard because the dude saved the state having to confiscate/euthanize it. >

My wife and I also adopted dogs from the same place. Yes, they have mostly wolfdogs, but they also occasionally rescue normal dogs that get mixed up in the wolfdog craze. Example: A family in Maine pays thousands of dollars for "wolfdog" puppies from a backyard breeder. What do they actually get? Two GSD mixed with malamute. Now they go around telling everyone they have wolfdogs (including their vet) so on paper the animals are labeled as wolfdogs. Eventually, they decide they can't take care of them, so they give them up to a recuse like Howling Woods Farm. The "wolfdogs" gets brought to the recuse and the staff there take one look at the animals and realize they have 0% wolf in them. So now they have two regular dogs for adoption.
Just because the dog came from HWF doesn't mean it was a wolfdog.
Source: we adopted the dogs in my example. >

Thanks for the info! Do they ever Embark the animals they get to see the wolf content? >

I can't give you a definitive answer as I don't work there, but when we adopted our two dogs they had not been DNA tested. My wife and I ended up doing it ourselves. >

John Wick is about to show the fuck up. >

Weirdly written article.
The hunter should be shunned by the community. >

That's a whole ass mess. 
1) why were the dogs not leashed with the owner in an area with hunters?
2) that dog looked nothing like a coyote. Ignorant, trigger happy, moron just caused so much heartache. The dogs were visibly marked with harnesses and on a marked trail, even.
While I believe the PA Game Commision, I'm surprised there would be no repercussion for the hunter
As an owner of an adopted senior dog that works closely with hunters, I'm sickened. So much of this was preventable. >

Whole ass mess seems right.  Seems also since no laws were technically broken, and the Hunter expressed plausible deniability (“I thought it was a wolf!”) that the commissioners hands are tied.  Any repercussions for the hunter from authorities in PA would have to stem from laws broken, otherwise it’s just going to rile up gun activists (on both sides) without leading to anything productive.
I agree with both your points, it seems like a “civil matter” if anything. >

Cool so we can hunt endangered animals now as long as we don't identify them first right? Game warden is a fucking idiot apparently. If you misidentify a person as bigfoot, would you be allowed to kill them no repercussions? If you can't identify the game you are hunting you have absolutely no business hunting. Even if he hadn't killed the dog, just missed, he should have his hunting license revoked for not being able to tell the difference between a family dog and a coyote. Fuck this stupid hunter and that dipshit game warden. >

Trump took wolves off the endangered list, and coyotes were never on. 
Idk if there’s any sort of season for either in that state. >

I wasn't saying wolves or coyotes are endangered. My point is that if you can shoot your neighbors dog under the guise you "thought" it's a coyote and it's excused, then the burden of identifying your target is completely gone and hunters are free to shoot anything that moves. They COULD shoot something endangered, let's say the last tazmanian tiger on earth(they're extinct not endangered but that's beside the point, they would be illegal to kill), and face no consequences by simply saying I thought it was something else that i'm allowed to kill. >

Oh I see. Yea, last year someone shot TWO different elk and thought it was a deer. imo there’s no excuse to not know what you shot >


According to Pennsylvania Game Commission, it was a case of mistaken identity. Hence, the hunter won’t face charges

What the fuck?! Isn't it the hunter's job to ensure the target he is shooting is what he actually intends to shoot? This is absolute insanity that he can walk about scott-free after killing a dog, which to many are literally family members, and continue with his bullshit hunting abilities. >

The issue to me, as a hunter, is that if you can mistake a dog for a deer (or coyote as the article says, dont know hy everyones saying deer actually) it means you just saw fur and fired without any kind of positive identification. That couldve been a person. 
Not to mention, you need to know whats behind your target as well so you dont shoot someone behind it. So you need to see the target really well to actually shoot.
As the most pro-gun person around, this guy shouldnt have a gun. >

I think you're making a big assumption that this hunter could not clearly see and identify their target and thus accidentally shot a dog.
It wouldn't shock me at all if this hunter followed all of these ID procedures, positively identified his target as a dog, ensured behind the dog was clear/safe, and shot the dog. >

Fuck Hunters who don't ID their fucking target, or don't find out what's beyond where their hunting. >

What if I mistake the hunter for an enraged gorilla and shoot him in self defense? >

"It's coming right for us!" >

I am so tired of the protective status of hunters. In some states, a hunting dog can go on to privately owned lands that have no trespass and no hunting signs up. They can hunt their prey and the hunters can go collect the dogs and prey.  Some states even provide compensation for injured/killed hunting dogs.  Hunters have gotten away with shooting people (don't go hunting with Dick Cheney, he'll shoot you in the face), let alone animals.
If someone shot my dog, I don't know how I could control myself. I'd be in a near murderous rage. 
Shame on this hunter. He should be named and shamed for being a dog killer. I hope the family sues for every last penny they can. >


I hope the family sues for every last penny they can.

Pets are property. Like furniture. They wouldn't get much. >

I see. They should sue for ownership of any of his pets then. >

What, like ask a court to seize his property and turn it over to them? What possible grounds exist to justify that? >

What possible grounds exist to justify killing someone’s dog?
The answer is context. In this case, suing the dude. >

The family is welcome to sue the hunter. They're only going to get the retail value of the dog. They won't get a dime for "pain and suffering" or anything like that. I'm not trying to be a dick. That's just the way it is. Pets are property. The dog owner is not entitled to seize the property of the hunter. >

It’s shit like this that leads to people retaliating against people who wrong them. Hopefully the legal system catches up to the times, if what you say about this person’s recourse is true. >

Catches up how? What should change? >

Make the law reflect actual damages. The value of a pet is not the amount they cost when you got them. 
If the law doesn’t see the value of someone’s pet beyond the dollar value of an animal, it’s going to cause issues with the injured party not feeling whole. And that is specifically what the civil law system was created for: to stop retaliation and tit-for-tat crimes by providing injured parties a legal avenue to be made whole. >


actual damages

So what are your actual damages for the loss of a pet? You can't claim something "beyond the dollar value of an animal" when you're asking for actual damages. Your actual damages are the cash value of the pet. 
Maybe it was a purebred you were planning on breeding. In a case like that, you could probably present stud fees as lost income, or the value of a few litters. But for the family dog that was just a mutt you adopted from a shelter, your actual damages are going to be whatever you paid for the dog. 
A dog is property, like a table or a couch. I get what you're saying. I love my pets. But in the eyes of the law, they're just a piece of property. >

Sorry, but this is 100% a John Wick scenario for me. >

I don't understand where does all this joy of killing another living being comes from, like it was a normal activity or hobby. I mean what kind of life you must have to get enjoyment from the death of an animal? Don't you guys feel some empathy or you really think animals are such inferior creatures that we have the right to decide when and how their life ends?
I've seen animals express high intelligence and complex emotions, they form bonds, families and communities. There is absolutely no way I would enjoy hurting an animal. >

This is a bad look from the state. The hunter is at very least negligent. >

Dog's owner wasn't rich enough, so in America it goes from a crime to "unfortunate." >

I mean, not the worst hunting thing I've seen with PA.. there's been a few stories of someone shooting an elk whilst apparently thinking it was a deer.
And there's always the deer who mistake a traveling vehicle as not existing until they're sliding down a road after taking out the front end of a vehicle >

This is wholly unacceptable. The dog was wearing an orange vest and on a trail. This seems intentional to me. If you are allowed to shoot across or on a hiking trail in PA they need new hunting laws. >

Wait, what? You can just shoot people's dogs in PA without breaking any laws? >

The article gives me the impression that he shot it by mistake. >

That's arguably worse. 
Shooting stuff by accident means you're incompetent and shouldn't be able to own a weapon. >

And worse still, it wad wearing a brightly colored harness. And a collar. So the guy is either blind, stupid dog both >

How do you mistake a malamute for a coyote? >

Exactly. Super different dogs >

Not condoning this but who in the actual fuck let’s their dog run free during deer season ?? In a lot of states if a dog is chasing deer it’s legal to kill them. So the owner here is not necessarily the victim but maybe the asshole. >

January is not "deer season", and I think in my state (not PA) that coyotes have an all-year season. >

In Pennsylvania it is deer season. 

DEER, ANTLERLESS EXTENDED REGULAR FIREARMS. ​(WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D): Dec. 26-Jan. 28, 2023.



coyotes can be taken year round in Pennsylvania


Don't take your pets out into active hunting zones. 


If you do they should be placed in a blaze orange collar or vest. No other color(s) are acceptable. 


Personally these folks with the dogs were technically interfering with an active hunt which is a game violation in itself. 
I can see how the hunter mistook the dog for a PA coyote. They look extremely similar. The game wardens made the correct call here. >

I agree about interfering with a hunt and the dog should have been leashed or with a vest and maybe a bell too. But have you seen a malamute? I haven't seen a PA coyote but I can't believe they look anything like that beautiful fluffy breed. >

HWF isn't a breeder, they're a rescue... they take in surrenders. And not everything they take in is a wolfdog. The majority of their animals are, but not all of them (we adopted our first two dogs from them and they were not wolfdogs).
Edit: The only wolf sanctuary in NJ is Lakota Wolf Preserve in Columbia. They have straight up wolves. >

The article clearly says the family adopted the dog from HWF. 
The dog the family adopted sure looks a lot like a wolf dog. The owners claimed, "how could the hunter mistake our "Malamute for coyote?" The answer is pretty simple, they look very similar.  

As a more primitive breed, Malamutes tend to have higher Embark “wolfiness” scores, which indicates that they have more ancient genetic variants in their genome than most other breeds — a holdover from historical interbreeding between working sled dogs and wolves 

So it  makes total sense as to why HWF had this dog available for adoption.  This is exactly the type of dog they deal with- Wolf dogs. 
The HWF website has a list of dogs for adoption, ALL of them are wolf dogs, which HWF specifically specializes in.  The only logical conclusion is that the family adopted a wolf-dog breed that had a malamute genetic blood line. The modern Malamute does not have recent wolf ancestry. 
Its no surprise to me a hunter mistook this dog for a coyote, a dog that was adopted from an organization that, well, specializes in wolf dog breeds. 🤷🏼‍♂️ >

When I was a kid and wed go to visit my family in Wisconsin during deer season, the number one rule was to stay near the house. The second was to make sure the very friendly dog never left the property. It was almost as if it was guaranteed that she would get shot if she encountered a hunter. >

When a gun nut wants to get off on killing an animal, does it matter what type of animal it is?  They'll still get their kicks. >

In Alabama the most you can be punished for killing someone's dog is the cost of replacement. >

I do not understand how one can kill a dog and not face charges.  Too many stupid people with guns in America. >

I'd be willing to bet this guy is going to eventually go away for murder. People like this are dangerous. If they're willing to blatantly kill pets because they can, you can bet they'll do it to a person. >

TL;DR always leash your dog, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE WALKING THROUGH A FOREST >

Did they say where the dog was? I was assuming that it was on the owner’s property. Mostly because the hunter said that he mistook it for a coyote, and most people don’t ‘hunt’ for coyote unless they’re protecting their livestock. >

public area open to hunting. guy walked up to part of the hunting party (because he though the season was closed, it was not) . in PA coyotes are kill on sight for many hunters due to their impacts on deer (which is actually misplaced , you need predators to kill shit and really yotes don't get many fawns black bears do). >

Also public area with a walking trail, which they were on. 
Seems like a dumb idea to mix the two. >

Anyone that believes the hunter really thought it was a coyote hasn’t spent time with any hunters. He knew he was shooting a dog and that’s why he shot it. Most hunters I’ve been around hate dogs running around in the woods, and many of these older hunters would shot the dog too. I’m not saying this is the right thing, just the way it is. This hunter is blatantly lying. There a lot of details missing from this article. Where did this happen at? Was it a wildlife management area? Was it some other public land where hunting is allowed? Why was the dog off a leash? Why was the family so close to someone hunting? None of these details change it to make shooting the dog ok, but still, details are important. >

Dog was on a marked trail and there were no leash requirements. 
Regardless of anything else, you should not be shooting towards a marked trail. >

Hunter’s sometimes react to the target and don’t grasp the whole range. I read of a hunter that shot another hunter in the face shooting at some quail. Luckily the other hunter didn’t suffer any life threatening injuries but did have a few health compilations. >

I don’t think I have a vivid enough imagination to call Dick Cheney a “Hunter” honestly. >

Just a little age teaser, you know you’re getting up there when you recognize an event without the names. 😏 >

I am getting older yes. But Joe can anyone forget, once they learn about it, that a VP shot a guy in the face and then got him to apologize for it. >

I had to check if this was that idiot who killed someone's dog and skinned it before posting it all over social media. >

Is it possible to get an orange vest for your dog? >

They had a colored harness on the dog at the time. So, possibly. 
Just someone too excited to pull the trigger and too ignorant to properly identify what they saw. The dog was on a marked trail as well. Hunter should not have been shooting towards or across a designated trail. 
Even if it was a coyote, the hunter was reckless. So was the dog owner by walking their dogs off-leash where they knew people were hunting.
Both sides take fault in this. But one was being stupid and careless with a firearm. >


too ignorant to properly identify what they saw.

I don't think it's a stretch to think that the hunter may have shot this dog on purpose. You're framing him as ignorant and that passes the blame a little. He should probably be framed as malicious until proven otherwise. >

Honestly, it's crossed my mind. However, it's hard to place that blame without a shred of a doubt. Some people are just plain stupid. That would also be so malicious and horrible that I can't see the majority of people doing something like that. 
You never know, though. It's a possibility. I just would like to think the odds are that it was just a dumbass who got too excited to be able to shoot something that he really did think it was a coyote. 
Some people I've dealt with over the years have misidentified house cats to be black bears, african lions, mountain lions, etc. Some people just straight up atrocious at identifying animals >

I lived in Berks County for almost my entire life (I'm 42) and I've seen exactly ONE coyote in all my days, and I lived in the middle of nowhere. They're damn near a myth in these parts. This man is an idiot. >

Hunters who can’t see shit out shooting…something… >

Oh nonsense, he’ll be charged alright. That’s someone wick moment now. >

File animal abuse charges? >

In WI the dogs wear orange vests during deer season. >

It would be good to get  more context, but its common for feral dogs to run deer, and they are usually shot by any hunter on principle. So before jumping to conclusions like most of reddit; we don't know from the article what area it happened, what the actual behaviour of the dog was or how far the dog was from its owner when it was shot. It's telling though that the authorities thought no laws were broken, so its probably a case of a dog running deer, or appearing to run deer in a place not common to walking your pet, at a time not recommended to walk your pet offleash.(hunting season).  Even the friendliest and best tempered of dogs can chase deer and other game, even farm animals, and kill them by instinct. >


On Saturday, Chris Heller took Hunter and Freya, a 4-year-old German shepherd mix, for a walk near their home on trails owned by the Reading Area Water Authority. Both dogs were wearing colored harnesses and collars, the Hellers said.
Chris Heller said he encountered deer hunters there and told them he and the dogs would be out of their way in a few minutes. The hunters, according to the Hellers, said they would alert their party that dogs were around — but it seems one didn’t get that message.
There are no posted leash laws in the area, according to Jennifer Heller, and Hunter was hit while on the marked trail.
Once Hunter was shot, Chris Heller said, he scooped the dog up and ran 100 yards. The hunters emerged to help him too, including the shooter.
Hunter, the Hellers said, weighed approximately 88 pounds, more than double the size of a big Eastern coyote. Hunter’s weight and the bright harness he was wearing, should have made the shooter pause, they said. While the dog had wolflike features, wolves haven’t lived in Pennsylvania for more than a century.

If you can't tell what your target is wearing a colored harness, you should never be permitted to pull another trigger for the rest of your life. >

The ignorance by the Hellers’ is what did it. Just because there’s no sign, it’s okay. Dogs are supposed to be leashed at all times, unless noted. Not the other way around. >

The article says there are no leash laws, so what are you on about? >

State law:  "All dogs must be under control and must not be allowed to run at large.  Dogs are personal property, and owners are responsible for damages caused by their dog."
Journalist bias, because they don't think of the dog/dog owner as the one at fault, when it really is. >

Hopefully the shooter gets charged in a civil suit. Dogs are property and the owner should get paid what it cost to take care of the dog over its lifetime. >

I don’t know why you think that would be how to value a dog monetarily. Makes no sense. >

Source: trust me bro >

I put an orange vest on my dog during hunting season. I don’t trust any Pennsylvania hunters. I believe most illegally hunt anyway. >

Ah yes, another case of an idiot with a gun getting away with carelessness (at best). 
sigh Be sure of your target (among other things) you dipshit. Ugh. >

My old dog had a high viz vest.  Get you one. >

Is their an idiot clause and a life time ban for a license. There is no excuse with a scope you could mistake a dog with a colored collar for a deer. >

Fuck these guys. They intentionally killed that dog in a fucking orange vest. They are lucky they didn’t kill my dog. They especially knew they were out there. Fuck em.
Hope they get what’s coming to them. >

Wow so a small person walking around could be shot. Either the shooters need glasses or they have 0 business having guns >

Is this fuck thought a well groomed malamute was coyote. Take his guns rights. I suspect he was pussed cause that guy prolly ruined their hunt while walking. Shot it on purpose. Happens alot in iowa and it's fucked up. People love shooting dogs and blaming it on ignorance >

Whoever came to this determination needs to be fired! >

I’m just wondering why people get so upset about a dog being killed but don’t care that the person who shot the dog was hunting deer.
Maybe we just shouldn’t harm animals. >

Eating a deer that got to grow up naturally for years, unrestricted, naturally fed, wild breeding, one day getting a (usually) sudden death   
VS   
An animal that was farmed, fed to optimize growth, possibly in cramped unsanitary conditions.. >

Good. It's not the hunter's fault the dog's owner is so careless. Fuck around, find out. >

Help me out with one thing...if the deer hunter thought that it was a coyote, why tf did he shoot it? >

Coyotes are pests and can be hunted year round in most if not all places >

Sneaky pests to wiggle themselves into colored harnesses like that.