>

Just enforce the laws we have. It’s already illegal to hire illegal immigrants. It’s just not enforced. Go after the. Employers.
Most are fleeing completly lawless countries that are being run by gangs and drug cartels. Others are fleeing cripling poverty. For them its a choice of  Illegaly immigrating into the US seeing your entire family die. If you can solve those two problems and youll drastically reduce illegal immigration . >

It would have helped if the US hadn't intervened in these countries thereby destabilizing them which contributed significantly to the conditions these countries now have. >

So let's be real here as bad as USA was in cold war it's not "these countries" as if all or most it's some. >

It really is at least most of them.
Here's a wikipedia page of direct US involvement regime change in Latin American countries.
This doesn't even include the indirect ways we mess with them, like drug cartels legally buying their weapons here or the war on drugs. >


It really is at least most of them.

Depends on what region you are talking about. Not for South America not that it changes what was done.

This doesn't even include the indirect ways we mess with them, like drug cartels legally buying their weapons here or the war on drugs.

You can point to things that can be done better in US, but blaming USA for indirectly impacting those countries isn't fair imo. Just because USA serves as a huge customer base for those drugs and cartels can get weapons from US doesn't mean it's USA fault or that USA wants that. >


Not for South America not that it changes what was done.

yes for South America >

I mean it's basic math. Count the counties on wiki in South America that were couped to the ones that aren't. 12 SA countries in total less than 6 couped so there you go. Not like this matters either way so not sure why you are making a big deal about it. >

Imagine believing Venezuela and Colombia are countries that did not have the USA choosing their leaders for them >

Imagine believing in conspiracy theories. Unless such activities have been proven, e.g. what was released during cold war or some form of independent 3rd party verified, you do not have adequate evidence to believe such things. America doing X bad things doesn't mean you can just assume in any and every circumstance. >

but like he is not wrong and it’s not considered a conspiracy theory because it is proven. The US did a lot of stuff to destabilize other countries or put into place militant leaders who were capitalists. Just because you are not knowledgeable about a topic does not mean it is a conspiracy theory. The US did a lot of horrible things in the Cold War in the name of stopping communism, this is not a conspiracy theory but a fact. I can go into more specific examples if you really need but you could also just look into the topic your self. >

Allow legal immigration to fill the market needs that demand illegal immigration. >

When I was a kid, every hotel worker I ever saw was born in America.  Most of them were african american, me being from chicago.
Nowadays, hotel staff are almost 100% foreign born hispanics.  And the black unemployment rate is twice that of whites.  We have the labor here, no need to import people for it.  
Employers love this situation though, because a glut of unkskilled labor in the USA means the price for unskilled labor is very low.  Decrease supply, demand will stay the same, price will go up and people will get paid more for things like hotel maids. >


Nowadays, hotel staff are almost 100% foreign born hispanics. And the black unemployment rate is twice that of whites

Back when the hotel staff was mostly black, the black unemployment rate was also twice that of whites. It's been that was consistently for decades. >

And they were paid starvation wages then, too. >

As long as some countries have a far better standard of living than others, there will be a strong desire to move there for many.
As long as the doors are closed but not fully and life for those that manage to sneak in is good enough, a portion of those who want to move will do inclined to take illegal action to manage that.
The only solution that meets the limitations of your question is to make everywhere on Earth just as good a place to live as the most desirable locations.  Chances are that's only possible by bringing down the standard of living of those that have secured a good one so it isn't likely to happen. >

Humans have been trekking from one corner of this planet since the dawn of humanity....It's not going to stop no matter what you do...politicians and governments know it and only use migration as a political tool to stay in power. Humans always find a way to migrate no matter what you do. >

You really can't.
America can have cheap goods, or it can have illegal immigrants in their labor force. Not both. Americans choose cheap goods day every day at their local grocery store. >

That would be a disaster.  We are demographically shrinking because the boomers are retiring and are the biggest working cohort ever.  There will continue to be worker shortages for the next 15 years.  We need a million a year to just keep from shrinking a,d shrinking is disastrous to economic growth. >

No, jobs have been shrinking, not growing. The technological context is here that automation is taking away jobs, not creating them. >

*citation needed >

MIT actually ran the numbers, there has been a stead decline in the number of jobs since the computer revolution in the 1970s.
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People may hate MIT but it has been surprisingly accurate so far. May I remind people around here that their paper on the internet (Electronic Communities: World Village or Cyber Balkans) is right on the money, especially the 'Cyber Balkans' portion of the paper? >

That was an excellent article.  No where in it does there say there's been a decline in jobs overall (because there hasn't,) and at most robotics has had a .2% impact on the employment to population ratio in the studied economy.
Your very good article does not support your argument that there has been a steady decline in the number of jobs, and they did not "run the numbers" to support your argument which is directly refuted by the actual numbers presented in the link I provided. >

The thing is that jobs have been shrinking due to a shrinking growth rate. I've read somewhere that 300k jobs needed to be created a month to grow the job market.
​
That number hasn't been around for decades... >

It’s pretty clear that the number of workforce participants has doubled since the 70’s. From 91 million to 200 million. Just gonna blow on by, that article not supporting you argument, aren’t you? >

You are missing the obvious solution. Legislate a higher number of immigrants. The problem with illegal immigrants is what they are bringing across the border and that they are unchecked. You want/need another 5 million? Make it so they can be verified as not criminals. You want in? You aren't a criminal or terrorist? Not smuggling drugs? Excellent. Welcome to America. >

We already do this.  The vast majority of illegal immigration in the US is from people who enter the country legally on some sort of temporary student/work/travel visa who then overstay that visa, becoming illegal.  
Border fences don't do much when almost all illegal immigrants come into the country originally through airports. >

Not sure where you got your numbers. In 2020, the number was half a million overstays, and the vast majority of those were from Canada (Homeland Security Report), and we are guessing around 2.6 million entries at the Sourhern border. >

For the U.S. it would be to end policies that are put in place to intentionally destabilize South and Central America.  End the war on drugs.  End sanctions...This isnt really difficult or unknown, just unpopular. >

I.e getting out of other people's business. The world would be far better off without world powers meddling in 3rd world countries. >

Honestly, if you want to end illegal immigration you need to make their countries better places to live in the first place. 
Americans love to bitch about it, but it’s half the reason their groceries are so fucking cheap. Everyone’s against illegal immigration until they have to pay $10 for a cabbage. >

So you are suggesting to continue meddling in other countries to "improve them"? Or am I misreading your position? >

The issue is that some Americans want to take an isolationist approach to the world, while reaping the benefits of globalization. 
The reason people keep coming here, is because their home countries are so terrible (often because of meddling done by the US) that they’d do anything to get here. 
So I guess, yes. >

You're assuming my point is to be isolationist  ut reap the benefits. No, it should be illegal under international law to have any involvement inside a country that exploits governments and work forces. 
If 1st world countries don't have to rely on 3rd world exploitation but they do anyways. People in the states would definitely figure out a way to produce cheap food, it's just everyone wants short term solutions. >

But I think “1st world” countries do require the exploitation of the Global South to be able to continue operating. We have set up our economy around the that exploitation. We should have to rather drastically change our culture and economy to be able to fix this. >

No matter how much we try to sanitize it by calling it "market demand" illegal immigration only works because business owners are a group rife with criminals supporting human trafficking.  NO ONE gets transported over the border unless they are getting hired at an incredibly high rate.  Immigrants are making money for traffickers right away because business owners are hiring them at a break neck pace.  They aren't coming to the US then getting on Google and LinkedIn to find work after a 6-8 month search.  If you don't start locking up owners breaking labor laws, you aren't going to stem the tide of anything.
The "market demand" for greed is never going away. >

I close my eyes and imagine a scenario where some environmental disaster has hit the US. Let’s say a huge hole in the ozone opens up across most of the US. Now I’m not a scientist but let’s say due to this hole, our crops are dying, people are getting cancer by the tens of thousands.  Water is contaminated.  Crime has increased 3739% as a result. The rich and powerful have either abandoned the country or have their own systems in place for survival.  
I’m with my family and I am seeing people die.  I know for certain that we will all die if we stay.  On the television and calls placed the government (whatever is still working). Canada and South America are taking refugees. But it’s a slow process. There is a lotto and we are advised to fill out a form and just wait. As we wait, more of us die.  
So do I decide to try and enter Mexico or Canada illegally?  Do I hear tales of walls going up, or Mexican drug lords who will take us and sell us into slavery? Do I hear tales of coyotes who will safely get us into another country.  What’s real and what’s lies?  Can Mexico say or do anything short of fixing America, that would keep me passively sitting around as we starve and die?  
At some point as a man, as a human being.  I am going to take my chances and would rather die trying to find safety than sitting in a room slowly being poisoned to death.  
What can anyone on this thread say or do to convince me not to try ? >

Great plot for a novel…
I have volunteered on the southern border in the refugee camps where thousands of asylum seekers (from tiny babies to the elderly) are living for sometimes over 2 years due to Trump’s Title 42 policy (seeking asylum is always legal under International law). The vast majority of people are desperate. They are fleeing violence, hunger and imminent death. Many have had family members murdered… Many travel with tiny children in their arms. The American public (for the most part) is not even aware of these vast tent camps because the white power structure does not want any sympathy garnished for people of color that could tip the balance or eventually dethrone their power through voting… The asylum seekers are well aware that we don’t want them here. They are that desperate… I have always said: If you are a parent and you love your child, you will climb any barrier or mountain, walk through any terrain and swim any river to protect them. >

There's two ways.  You either directly focus on demand or on supply.  
Supply is the hardest one.  Most illegal immigration is legal immigration where people overstay visas.  Since we can't cut off that supply (or rather, it's not beneficial to do so), the way to address that supply is to open up more legal immigration so that people don't stay here illegally.  Looking outside the US borders, improving other nations so that people don't want to leave can possibly help too, but the ability to do that is limited.  
On the demand side, the biggest thing we could do, is to eliminate having an underclass in society who can be used and abused outside of labor laws because they don't qualify for legal protections.  
This basically means that any citizens rights/benefits need to be reclassified as rights for residents instead.  But, that could still lead to people being afraid to express those rights for fear of deportation... which brings us back to people overstaying legally issued visas.  
That would probably mean redefining a temporary visa, so that they don't expire unless someone relocates out of the country.  Permanent visas to let people come/go, temporary let them come here and stay until they're ready to leave. >

You are basically asking to make sure that immigrants home countries in a better condition than they are. But the people that are coming here out of no choice are in such dire circumstances it’s very hard for us to ameliorate.  there will always be a movement in people between nations. 
The important thing is accepting them. There are no real downsides to immigration including in the home countries, where most often than not remittances are sent. >

Not sure where you'll find American citizens willing to do the jobs most of the immigrants arriving via our southern border will do for us, but if you do, you'll be the first in living memory. For just one example, they were coming to this country to harvest our crops in the 1920's - probably earlier. Until jrbush decided to close the border, they just went home when harvest was done - it was fear of not being able to come back for the next harvest that prompted several million of them to just stay put, giving the Republicans another tool to excite their racist voters. >

I had a tire guy before I moved who was great.  I think he was Mexican but he spoke English and one time he told me he had to leave to go back due to immigration, it was a shame he had his own little business on the side of a repair shop and he had a wife and kids, he's one that should have stayed.  I hope when he got back he can get work since he spoke English. >

The only way to stop illegal immigration is to jail or fine the employers, create a national ID card, and deport those who cheat by overstaying a visa or coming in illegally. Illegal immigration isn"t "needed". It's employers responding to basic supply and demand of cheaper labor. >

No, its the difference between other countries economies and ours. And no amount of enforcement will fix the root of the issue. So long as other countries have much poorer economies, people will flee them. 
That said, the drug war is directly responsible for the rise of the cartels. If you had regulated drug use in the us, where the money went to state sanctioned enterprises that undercut the cartels, then we wouldnt have cartels, and as such, no illegal immigration. >

And we have a system in place for economic migration. They can get in line like everyone else. Yes enforcement fixes a lot of things. European countries have strict enforcement and ID systems to protect their own citizens and taxpayers from illegal immigrants. We can do the same. And there is plenty of illegal immigration that has nothing to do with the cartels. Educate yourself.