>

it’s not a small part of my life for me. In my traditional Asian family, it means everything. When I said I didn’t want to go to a top20 college, they took that as they wouldn’t EVER support me. Like literally stopped talking to me, took away all my devices I need for school.
Ph.D. perspective here:
At the undergraduate level and below, it honestly doesn't matter.
All of those people will get random jobs that will promote on merit anyway. 74% of people don't even end up in careers related to their undergraduate major!! And the folks who can't learn the job, will fail. Few of those jobs require much education. Certainly not to the level of a BS, and many of them not even to the level of a high school diploma. We've created a system that frankly puts people through the hell of 8 years (4 hs, 4 college) of education that they don't legitimately need in order to say we're hiring based on merit. It's a joke. And everyone who has really looked at what is required of the jobs that kids' with a BS get hired into know it's a joke.
I mean, it is in fact unethical. And we do punish it when caught. But, frankly, the world has decided that a B.A/S. is now what a high school diploma used to be -- and the standards have shifted to reflect that.
But at the graduate level, it does catch up. You can't cheat your way through a thesis. You can't cheat through a master's at any reasonably good school. You certainly can't cheat through a Ph.D. level degree at a properly accredited brick and morter school.
And, the folks who cheat, don't generally apply to those programs because they do recognize that they aren't as good as their record. Sure, we run into it from time to time. But even in this cynical day and age, when a grad student is caught cheating it's still a big deal.
If your parents are hitting you -- that's physical abuse and a crime. It is not the fault of cheaters, it is the fault of your parents being terrible human beings who need to be imprisoned.  Please seek help from the appropriate authorities. >

i think this is most likely from a highschool perspective, where getting into college is the big thing people compete for. >

Anyone who wants to go to college can. Literally. 
Colleges are competing vigorously for candidates. There aren't enough qualified students to go around.
No one who wants to go to college can't based on admission requirements. They may jot be able to based on self-limiting factors. But that is a different discussion >

Are you saying any old university is the same as harvard? >

What substantive difference does it make if I get a degree from Harvard as opposed to any other public university? >


I studied every day for the SAT/my tests and spent a lot of time prepping, creating flashcards, spending time understanding the material, etc. Hours a day

Do you also hate people who never study and do well organically? >

Um, no. The people that I am talking about can do well if they actually spent time studying. I am upset at people who take five minutes to write a notecard and use it on the test. >

Why do you care if people make a note card if your view isn't based on the effort people put in? >

It sounds like you're envious of people who cheat, and you're taking out your frustration from your family on them. 
People who cheat roll the dice and take the dangerous route and risking their education that's on them. That shouldn't bother. You shouldn't waste time worrying about what other people do and focus on your own path.
At the end of the day you can pick straws and say things about grade curves and what not but thats just the begining of a blame mentality. Them cheating isn't going to stop you from getting the job you want. Them cheating is not gonna stop you from living the life you wanna live.
Life is unfair. Some people work tirelessly to get hired for a job just to get beat out by the manager's friend's nephew. If you continue this mindset you're gonna be bothered by a lot of the real >

First and most importantly, if your parents are hitting you for getting bad grades, or for any other reason whatsoever, please seek help. Tell a counselor or trusted teacher as they’ll be required to report it.  This is obviously illegal and the life long trauma this can cause is much worse than any cheating by your peers.
As for the cheating, it’s gonna happen. In school and in life. There’s no good argument for cheating, but I would say that most people cheat out of anxiety. It’s also pretty easy to spot if you’re knowledgeable in whatever subject matter is in question and idiots tend to weed themselves out somewhere down the line. I’m not saying fakers can’t and don’t make it - there’s tons of dumbasses in high paying corporate jobs - but generally speaking the cream will rise to the top. Simply put, it’s not worth the time and energy to actively hate every person who cheats. 
Also, IMO, the onus is on the test creator / teacher / whoever to make the test secure / un-cheat-able. It’s not hard to ask questions that require actual thought and analysis.  
Lastly, if you’re that fed up, be a narc and narc on them.   You’ll burn bridges, but hey, you already think you’re morally superior to them so why not. >

I understand that there are many cheaters that have anxiety. I mean, I don't cheat but I also have anxiety taking tests. But my anger is directed towards students who don't try at all and don't bother picking up a textbook or some notes and cheat.
When did I say I was morally superior to them? >

You didn’t explicitly say it, but you do, right?  As you rightfully should to some extent.   I just don’t think it’s worth getting angry about. I understand and empathize with your thought process in that a cheater will get into a better college and therefore a better grad program and therefore a better job. You’re correct in saying that’s not fair. No one can argue with that. But there’s not much YOU can do about it, so why harbor all this resentment?  What you can do is think about yourself and work hard and you’ll do fine. >

Yeah it sucks, but at this point will it prevent you from getting into the college you want to get into? If not then I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Cheating in college is less feasible and more damaging to yourself and potential career. 
I’m not sure what your relationship/dynamic with your parents is, but I’d start holding my ground/pushing back once it gets to an abusive level. Sorry to hear about that, it’s definitely not ok. >

I mean, possibly. The school I go to is one of the highest-ranked in the state. Tons of kids get into Ivy Leagues or other great universities, and a lot of kids who are just as smart don't get into them... >

Hold up - I totally thought this was an  r/trueofmychest post. So you’re challenging us to convince you not to hate these kids? It’s not really a “view”, but I can give a stab at it. >

my view is that cheating takes opportunities from others and that cheaters have time to study but choose not to. i mean, maybe it's a bit out of place or badly worded. >


and that cheaters have time to study but choose not to

Is your view that this applies to all cheaters, or some cheaters? >

The ones I’m talking abt in my post. >

It sounds like the bigger issue is with your shitty parents tbh. >

OP I’m a successful electro-mechanical engineer.  I say that not to brag.  I also skated by in school.  I went to a state university.  I studied my butt off every day.  I never cheated as I was afraid that it would come back to haunt me later, I would get someone killed, or put a company out of business etc.  It’s important to do the right thing.
I hate cheaters too.  Keep up the good work and it will work out. >


Cheaters take opportunities from people who actually work for their grades. Cheaters spend more time cheating than actually studying. Cheaters have time to study, they just don't study because they're lazy.

I'm a teacher. I get seriously frustrated with people who cheat. Cheating makes it harder for me to do my job well, and harder for me to trust students who are honest.
But I think this is waaay too broad and sweeping a generalization. I don't doubt that it's true of some people. But I think one of the most common causes of cheating is panic because of grade pressure.
That's not to say that you don't have grade pressure. And I commend you for staying honest. But I don't think it makes sense to generalize all people who cheat the way you did.
Speaking of your grade pressure:

And the worst part is that I actually fucking get abused for my grades. My parents are abusive and hit me, scream at me, and shut me out when I don't get all straight, perfect, As

So, that's literally illegal, and you should tell someone about it. I recommend a school counselor, or a teacher you trust. They'll be required to report it. >

As a teacher what percentage of tests or students do you think are being cheated? I'm curious if having that one odd unearned A+ significantly shifts the bell curve. >

When you say "are being cheated" do you mean "are cheating"?
I'm not 100% sure, and it certainly depends on the class structure, especially on how easy it is to cheat. I have way more problems with computer science, where I don't know a good way to set it up so that students can't access their submitted code after a test (to share it), and way fewer problems with physics, where tests are done on paper and unmonitored problem solving is a much smaller portion of the grade.
I would guess that in any given year I probably have something like 2-5 of my ~150 students do something that they consciously acknowledge as cheating (I could be wrong...I'm accounting for the fact that I don't catch all of them, but it's hard for me to estimate how many I don't catch). In computer science there's a ton of helping on homework that is really too much "now do this", but that line is blurry enough that I think most students who harm their own learning that way don't think they're cheating as they do it.
As for "significantly shifts the bell curve", if you're talking about whether that affects the grade of sudents who don't cheat, I don't believe it does for the simple reason that I don't use a bell curve. I do scale assessments, but I set the class average based on how well the class did overall...both compared to similar assessments in previous years, and based on my perception of the understanding displayed on the tests. When I set the scaling function, I then go through tests on the borderline and say "does it make sense that this is a B- and this is a C+?" etc. So if some students who didn't understand the material well cheated and got higher grades, that would result in me also setting a higher class average, and (hopefully, anyway) another student's scaled grade wouldn't change in any systematic way.
That's all assuming I don't catch the cheating. If I catch the cheating, I simply exclude that student's results when doing the scaling steps. >


And the worst part is that I actually fucking get abused for my grades. My parents are abusive and hit me, scream at me, and shut me out when I don't get all straight, perfect, As (NO A-!!!).

Sounds like some redirected anger towards these cheaters if you ask me... >

I mentioned that because they tease me for getting "worse grades" than them if they happen to get better test scores. And they also know my parents are abusive. If I get an A-, like most of the class who didn't cheat, they ask what my friends got. So I say A or something and then they scold me for not doing as good as them or whatever when they got that grade because they cheated. >

woosh...
Your parents should not abuse you.
Don't blame your classmates for your parents abusing you, blame your parents. >

There is no reason your parents should be hitting you for getting bad grades. They seem like much worse people than anyone who cheats on a school test. Good parents don't hit their kids. You should be asking yourself why they think that's ok, not why some assholes at school happen to be cheating or not. >

I mean I know it’s wrong but it’s how most Asian kids are raised. I still love them and everything, and they love me too. I know their parents were like that, and it’s hard to unlearn generational trauma. 
I mentioned my parents because they always ask what my friends got and it sucks telling them that they got an A on the test they cheated on, and me getting asked “why you don’t get same grade if you study?” >


Cheaters take opportunities from people who actually work for their grades

They don't, actually. Their higher performance is not detrimental to your performance.

Cheaters have time to study, they just don't study because they're lazy. 

Frankly, standardized tests are a farce anyway. In no job in the world will you ever have to remember things by heart - you can always look them up. Always. Or ask someone else. They are not a good assessment of intelligence, they're not a good assessment of creativity.

And the worst part is that I actually fucking get abused for my grades. My parents are abusive and hit me, scream at me, and shut me out when I don't get all straight, perfect, As (NO A-!!!).

And how is that the fault of students that cheat? Hate your family for being abusive, not the people who have nothing to do with your family being abusive.
Take it from someone who never cheated in school - it just ain't worth it. >


They don't, actually. Their higher performance is not detrimental to your performance.

It very much is. Is that a joke.
When people cheat, It messes with the grading curve. Which negatively impacts ALL the students that didn't cheat.
When people cheat, It doesn't accurately reflect the quality of the teacher/professor. If a teacher isn't teaching well that gets reflected in the test scores if people were being honest, and will lead to a teacher attempting to change their methods to become a better teacher for the class and future classes. That doesn't happen when kids cheat. >

Not to mention future opportunities. If I get a 3.5 GPA not cheating and have great understanding of my college work, and someone else cheats their way to a 4.0 then they may get a job offer over me despite not actually knowing much at all.
Will it come back to bite THEM when they can’t perform on the job? Probably, but I still most MY potential job offer to someone who doesn’t deserve it. >

Literally an engineer and no employer I’ve ever had has asked what my GPA was in college. They want to know if you have a degree and that’s really all. They don’t give a shit what your GPA was lol >

I mean typically if you go through college recruiting it will help to have it in your resume. They won’t “ask about it.” however, putting it on your résumé, will make it more likely that you get a call, at least in the business/finance world. >

Okay so put you got a 4.0 on your resume. They literally won’t care to even confirm that.
While we are on the topic, you can lie up and down on your resume. Just be able to back it up if it comes to it. Which is the same that goes for grades. Your 4.0 won’t matter for shit at a real job. They care about how you actually do the job, not the fact you filled in the correct bubbles. >

Until they ask for your transcripts lmao. This has happened for every finance job I interned at. >

“Interned”
There’s why. When you go for the actual job, it won’t be asked. My girlfriend has her masters in finance. Literally never been asked for transcripts at any institute she’s worked at. >

They do a background check at any reasonably sized corporation. School transcripts are simple and routine to confirm. >

dude if you're getting beat up for your grades start cheating lmao >

Exactly, work smarter not harder. Being a moral person in an immoral environment will only lead to your swift demise. >

checking a notecard when the teacher isnt looking isn't working smarter, its just being lazy. anyone can do that. >

The teacher is also lazy for allowing such an exploitable test. We also are assuming anything of use was on the card, which you don’t know unless you saw it and took the test, or trust the cheater is telling you the truth after. Regardless what’s the difference if we’re talking about tests that are exploited with a notecard: which of the following years did X take place, a formula, etc. simple low level. 
As you advance, the formulas are often given to you; some are open book; others allow you to make up a part you don’t know and work with the false fact and continue forward on your work to prove your knowledge. >

It seems like you hate these “friends” of yours who cheat and brag about it more than the act of cheating itself. Stop being friends with these people, and you’ll stop being picked on. Block their numbers, and most importantly stop giving them your (correct) homework. You’re just helping them cheat.
If your position on cheating is so important to you, report them. I’m sure your teachers would be more than happy to learn that some students are cheating. If you can do it anonymously do it, there’s nothing to lose. >

Cheating doesn’t stop when you get out of school either. Say you get the dream job, you doubt think there’s charismatic people that fail upwards in the workplace too?? If you don’t, you’re in for a bitter awakening and it’s not worth the anguish. You’re fighting an uphill battle. Just focus on yourself. Be grateful you’re actually learning things that can be applied in life and recognize that your anger is really towards your parents for their abuse (yes it is abuse how are you in college and your parents think it’s ok to physically punish you???) it reads like what you think is resentment towards your peers for causing you to “miss out on opportunities” is really a fear of personal failure brought on by your parents abuse manifesting by you lashing out at peers who don’t suffer the same abuse and the anxiety that stems from it; you’re visibly afraid of them… You’re already making excuses for not living up to their harsh and extreme expectations and shifting the blame from those expectations to cheaters… I’d venture to say you need to talk to someone qualified and cut back on what I can only assume is an obscene intake of caffeine. >


Cheaters take opportunities from people who actually work for their grades
they just don’t study because they’re lazy
they are getting scores close to mine or even better than mine

You could make these same arguments for naturally smart/gifted people. Or for people who have really good memories. >

One of my partners has cheated for basically their entire geometry class this semester with my help. Because their school will not give them the accommodations that they need for their dyslexia and their dyscalculia which makes math basically impossible for them. There is no reason for my partner to suffer and get a bad grade because their school is a piece of shit. I have absolutely no remorse. I will do what I need to do to get my partner graduated and out of school so they can get the fuck out of their house. >

Cheating in school is in itself a form of success.
The sooner you get out of your precious school bubble and realize that life is not fair, that it's never the best worker that actually gets the promotion but the most extrovert and charming, the sooner you'll change your expectations .
I can also add that the current school structute purely based on remembering stuff by heart may work for future doctors remembering disease and bones by heart, but was an absolute joke for all my marketing degrees. I've used maybe if I'm generous 5% of everything I've learned during my bachelor and masters degree, in the workplace >

School is such a small part of your life its really not worth getting so angry about.  It sounds like you're just angry at your parents and the fact that you think you deserve more because you "put in more effort". No one cares. Jobs don't care. Theres so much more to intelligence than taking a test.