def start_position(start_norm, start_classic):
    """Given a string "[y, x, ...]" or a string "+[y]:[x]", return a tuple (y, x)
    for the start position

    Args: start_norm - string [y,x, ...]
          start_classic - string "+[y]:[x]"

    Returns: tuple (y, x)
    """
    if start_norm is not None:
        start_pos = start_norm.split(',')[:2]
        if not start_pos[0]:
            start_pos[0] = 0
        start_pos = [int(i) for i in start_pos]
    elif start_classic:
        sp = start_classic[0].strip('+').split(':')
        if not sp[0]:
            sp[0] = 0
        try:
            start_pos = (int(sp[0]), int(sp[1]))
        except IndexError:
            start_pos = (int(sp[0]), 0)
    else:
        start_pos = (0, 0)
    return start_pos