Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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—Alexander Ustimenko 08:12, January 16, 2012


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(UTC)


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This was not an easy task — I remember what I saw, but I don't remember where.


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However, if you agree that this is the same thing, then compared to the number of terms used in dictionaries and — the second is clearly less common.


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On google we have 5 to 1:434,000 versus 85,800.


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I keep looking.


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—Melirius 10:16, January 16, 2012


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(UTC)


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Maybe uv.


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Melirius, going through Ctrl-F on Discussion: Living Ethics with “Religious Philos” will you stop searching?


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—Van Helsing 18:52, January 16, 2012


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(UTC)


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That's not exactly what I mean.


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I have not yet found a definition of “religious and philosophical teaching” in general.


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The fact that AI constantly uses it in relation to ZhE, I agree completely, absolutely and irrevocably.


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The very definition of “religious and philosophical teaching” is probably considered so obvious that it is not written anywhere.


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—Melirius 19:16, January 16, 2012


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(UTC)


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For “religious philosophy”, I hope you're looking for?


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In general, I am categorically against restarting on a new page, mediation is not mediation - it does not matter.


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There is a desire - on the discussion page of the ZhE, in the archive, on the VU, all discussions can be subtracted.


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—Van Helsing 19:20, January 16, 2012


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(UTC)


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No, I don't agree it's the same thing.


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The concept of “religious and philosophical teaching” is much narrower and is included as part of the concept of “spiritual teaching”.


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This is the essence of my proposal - to give the most generalizing definition, and not to reduce the concept of the Living Ethics to one particular aspect of it.


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This can be achieved either by giving 3-4 specific definitions sequentially, or by one generalizing definition.


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—Alexander Ustimenko 07:26, January 18, 2012


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(UTC)


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It would be nice to have a definition of “spiritual teaching” then.


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Otherwise, the statement “The concept of “religious and philosophical doctrine” is much narrower and is included as part of the concept of “spiritual teaching”.” becomes meaningless, since neither “religious and philosophical doctrine” have yet been defined. philosophical doctrine”, nor “spiritual teaching”.


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—Melirius 12:05, January 18, 2012


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(UTC)


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There are basic terms, intuitive and even obvious, on the basis of which all others are defined.


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Apparently, the terms “spiritual teaching” and “religious and philosophical teaching” refer to them.


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This does not mean that they are not defined at all - there are many definitions of what “religion”, “philosophy” and “spirituality” or “spiritual” are - including in relation to the spheres of collective forms of spiritual creativity.


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The study of the concept of “spirituality” was carried out in the dissertation that I recommended you read: “Spirituality, its similarities and antipodes in culture” - this study clearly shows: 1. what the concept” spirituality” has a rich history of research, especially in Russian philosophy; 2. that the concept of “spirituality”, in the context of “forms of manifestation of the Spirit in the life of society”, includes all forms of collective spiritual creativity: religious, philosophical, scientific, moral, aesthetic, pedagogical, etc.


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The same is only briefly stated in the dictionaries that I cited in the discussion at the WU —Alexander Ustimenko 07:13, January 19, 2012


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(UTC)


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Well, as I have seen, “religious and philosophical teaching” is a generally accepted term for discourse within the framework of religious philosophy.


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But I cannot say such a thing about spiritual teaching.


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Appeals to the liver I'm supposed to feel something


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(“basic terms, intuitive and even obvious”) are not accepted.


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The definition of “the concept of “spirituality”, in the context of “forms of manifestation of the Spirit in the life of society”, includes all forms of collective spiritual creativity: religious, philosophical, scientific, moral, aesthetic, pedagogical, etc.” — leads to the identity of the definition of “spiritual” with the generally recognized and more common “social”.


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In this case, the phrase “GE is a spiritual teaching” does not say anything about teaching at all, all teachings are social phenomena.


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—Melirius 15:28, January 19, 2012


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(UTC)


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Methods of demagogy


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(quite unified) used by adherents of the doctrine can be read here.


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Thus, in the third paragraph there is auto-reference evidence with an appeal to evidence in support of unsubstantiated statements; in the fourth paragraph - a link to a plush examination of dubious origin


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(ridiculed at SO GE); it is worth noting that the statement “Let's consider the arguments of both positions.” was later forgotten.


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The work later turns into an apologetic leaflet with 1 mention of the “second” position in 1 sentence with the “refutation” of the classification on certain grounds by denying the very possibility classifying


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(we recall the discussions on pseudoscience, statements that since there are white dots in the black square and black in the white square, the concepts of white and black are relative).


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Van Helsing 09:00, January 18, 2012


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(UTC)


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A note on the religious component


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I have already touched on this issue in the discussion at the WU, where I cited a reference to a philosophical doctoral dissertation, an article in “Questions of Philosophy”


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(journal from the HAC list)


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Doctor of Philosophy, and an independent scientific examination of the activities of the ICR, conducted by Doctor of Philosophy, Professor of the Department of Philosophy at MGIMO.


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Yes, the first two are followers of the Living Ethics, but their opinion is reasoned in detail and published


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(protected)


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in peer-reviewed sources.


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As for the third author, I am told that he participated in some ICR conferences... It's ridiculous.


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Over the past twenty years, about twenty academicians and corresponding members of the Russian Academy of Sciences have participated in ICR conferences; the number of participating doctors of science is estimated in the hundreds.


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Are all of them affiliated with the ICR after that?


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And three of the last four ministers of culture, who did not just participate - spoke at the opening, who are the ICR conferences, who are the anniversary celebrations in honor of the 20th anniversary of the ICR?


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What nonsense... Yes, half of the country is “tied” to the ICR, it cooperates with about 400 state museums, dozens of large scientific institutions, etc.


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etc.


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But this is lyrics.


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Here are two more AIs that directly deny the religiosity of the Living Ethics:


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from Fatkhitdinova's dissertation: “So since the mid-90s. In the twentieth century, mainly in the dissertation councils of Moscow and St. Petersburg, dissertations were defended on... the pedagogical ideas of the Living Ethics and the work of E.I. Roerich:... Kozlova P.P., who noted that unlike religious teaching, where the formation of the spiritual world focuses on the suppression of the carnal, material, Agni Yoga reveals the ways of harmony between the two began: material and spiritual.” I.e.


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we have two more dissertations - by Fatkhitdinova herself


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(she was not noticed in defamatory ties with RD, it's just that a person thinks broadly)


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and a certain Kozlova P.P.


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(I haven't found this dissertation yet)


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- in which the first denies the religiosity of the Roerich movement, and the second denies the religiosity of the Living Ethics.


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from the dissertation “Pavlov Aleksandr Yuryevich. CONCEPTUAL FOUNDATIONS OF ONTOLOGY AND EPISTEMOLOGY IN LIVING ETHICS. Specialty 09.00.01 - Ontology and Theory of Knowledge. The author's abstract of the dissertation for the degree of Candidate of Philosophical Sciences. Barnaul — 2004": “In terms of the range and specifics of the problems considered by the Living Ethics, it is often referred to such a system of philosophical knowledge as Russian cosmism


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(A.F. Zamaleev, V.N. Dudenkov, O.A. Karchevtsev).


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It is shown that it is not always legitimate to attribute the Living Ethics to the religious and philosophical trend of Russian cosmism and it is completely wrong to consider it a religious system.


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In this regard, an analysis of the content and possibility of correlating the concepts of “philosophy”, “religion”, “mysticism”, “occultism” is carried out.


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The revealed characteristic features of Russian cosmism show that the Living Ethics can hardly be unequivocally attributed to the philosophy of cosmism at all.


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Of course, it, like Eastern philosophy, contains cosmological ideas.


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But they are only part of the overall philosophical problem.


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“- it is very difficult to suspect this author of sympathizing with the Living Ethics, because, unlike all followers, he refuses the Living Ethics to belong to the philosophy of Russian cosmism.


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Thus, there are AIs that challenge the religious component of the Living Ethics.


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I.e.


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there is a discussion in the philosophical community on this issue.


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According to Wikipedia rules, this means that the opinion about the religiosity of this teaching must be presented with attribution - and certainly cannot be presented as a non-alternative definition of the Living Ethics.


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Even with the prefix “philosophical”.


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Also for this reason, the definitive “spiritual teaching” takes precedence over the definitive “religious and philosophical doctrine.


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In general, as an author, I like my first definition most of all - “... a teaching that has received a whole range of determinative and characteristics: spiritual and moral, religious and philosophical, philosophical, ethical teaching...” I would stop there, but my opponents did not like the “non-encyclopedic” form of its presentation.


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So for six months now I have been looking for and proposing compromise definitions, which my opponents stubbornly deny with the same stubbornness...


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(this change was made by Alexander Ustimenko)


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04:48, January 19, 2012


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(UTC)


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—Alexander Ustimenko 06:16, January 19, 2012


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(UTC)


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Yes, no component in the above works is disputed, do not exaggerate, participant 82.97.192.154.


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The first of the sources you cited does not deny the religiosity of the ZhE in any way.


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The second source says that “it is not always lawful to attribute the Living Ethics to the religious and philosophical”, that is, in the vast majority of cases it is legitimate, so other cases are necessary consider by VP:MARG.


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As for “it is completely wrong to consider it a religious system”, this is the name of the Roerich movement based on the ZhE, and not the ZhE itself.


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You do not show the presence of a “discussion” in the community about the “religious component” of the ZhE, but on the contrary, the opinion about the teachings of the ZhE as religious and philosophical has been confirmed as mainstream.


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Vajrapani 05:33, 19 January 2012


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(UTC)


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Let the mediators resolve this dispute.


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(UTC)


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Vajrapani's opinion


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Alexander Ustimenko's hasty forcing of the result, regarding the preamble of “Living Ethics”, when other participants


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(opponents)


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are waiting for the start of mediation with an approved composition of mediators - not comme il faut.


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Moreover, opponents have repeatedly responded to Alexander's arguments repeated from time to time that he prefers not to notice, but at the same time expects “new arguments”.


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From the participant's comment: “The narrower understanding of Q Valda's participant proposed and carried out in the article Living Ethics that this is a religious and philosophical doctrine” - this definition was present in the article long before starting work in it, the school.


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Q Valda was consensus.


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Once again, it should be noted that Alexander demonstrates active ignoring of a significant layer of information from the sources he cites.


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For example, Yablokov's work, in a quote from which the participant forgot to highlight in bold “Non-confessional syncretic religious philosophy” and at the same time focused on “philosophical and ethical teaching”, does not noting that it [the teaching] is aimed at mastering “cosmic energy - Agni”


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(what is this? the basis of ethics?).


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Or, for example, a work is quoted where words around the repeatedly mentioned phrase “ethical occultism” stand out in bold, and does not attach importance to it itself, and in the proposed by the participant there are no options for defining the doctrine of the word occultism and esotericism, although there are more than enough sources about the occult nature of the teaching.


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After all, the same source speaks of spiritual and moral teaching “within the framework of the occult-theosophical tradition.”


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According to Alexander's interpretation, the spiritual teaching of the Roerichs is by no means “within the framework” of occultism, but rather includes religion, science, philosophy, etc., etc. Similarly to the esotericism of the doctrine, but Alexander simply kept silent about the attribution of the Living Ethics and its followers to New Age, although this is an existing important part of the preamble.


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Such a selective reading of sources by Alexander is often


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(a recent example on the same subject).


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In another quote, Alexander highlights in bold the words “pedagogical ideas of the Living Ethics”, and then quotes from Khachatryan's work, forgetting that in the AK:537 solution, using the example of the work of this researcher said: “For example, the presence of a dissertation “The problem of women and the family in the philosophy of living ethics”


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(website copy)


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is not a basis for entering information about the relevant ideas of the Living Ethics in the articles Woman or Family, since the weight of such a source among all sources engaged in the study related issues are close to zero.


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In any case, the views of such esoteric [highlighted by me] trends should not receive more attention in the article


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(both in terms of the volume of the text and from the point of view of the presentation of the material), what authoritative sources give them compared to other points of view.


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” Khachatryan's work has already been evaluated by the AK decision, according to which for Wikipedia this work is low-weight in the issues of “woman” and “family”


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(that is, in its profile), which means that it cannot be an AI in the definition of religious and philosophical esoteric teaching.


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I believe that other sources should also be checked for marginality.


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Well, Alexander's reasoning about the exclusion of Mahatma Moriah from the preamble resembles enchanting episodes from the chronicle described in AK:537 #Пример of the defendants imposing their interests in the time perspective.


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I suggest that we do not forget the stages that have been passed, as well as wait for the beginning of mediation, especially since in its current form, the preamble very correctly describes the content of the doctrine, as it is on the part of independent sources.


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Vajrapani 18:20, January 12, 2012


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(UTC)


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Hmm, Alexander Ustimenko's “Hurry Forcing the Outcome” has been going on since July last year, when Q Valda made significant non-consensus changes to both the preamble and the main text of the article.


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Am I in a hurry?


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The Roerich theme has already been included in the working mediation of the NEAC.


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At the moment, it already has two mediators - if they have time, they are quite competent to summarize this discussion.


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Your accusations relate to me personally, and not to the content of the preamble to the article under discussion.


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Therefore, I do not see the point in answering them.


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Quotes from a large number of academic AI are given, let the mediators give their assessment of these quotes, and not my alleged shortcomings in their analysis.


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If there are specific counterarguments not against my actions, but against the definitions I have proposed


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(the three most popular definitions, or one generic definition)


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- I'd be happy to see them and discuss them.


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—Alexander Ustimenko 07:13, January 13, 2012


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(UTC)


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The editors made the edits reasonably, with references to AI, not only Q Valda, to call them non-consensus just because they do not correspond to your opinion, you know, frivolous.


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I gave my opinion not for you, but for intermediaries, so you can answer or not answer.


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And you shouldn't be trying to accuse me of something that does not exist, I have never accused your personality, and I considered it necessary to cover your active proposals and distribution of ratings.


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It would be better to smile that someone is reading your “megamonologues” Vajrapani 18:29, January 13, 2012


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(UTC)


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Q Valda's edits are non-consensual because they did not reach an editorial consensus.


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They were entrenched in the preamble of the article by actually deception


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(taking advantage of my poor knowledge of Wikipedia rules)


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and forceful punching.


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These changes significantly differ from the previous consensus version of the article from early May 2010


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(even before I came to Wikipedia)


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- I wrote about this in detail in the justification of VP:742.


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Reading the arguments of your opponent is required, at least, by the duty of courtesy and the culture of communication.


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I read your monologues carefully and try to answer them as much as possible.


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—Alexander Ustimenko 08:35, January 16, 2012


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(UTC)


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On my additional note: information about Mahatma Morya in the preamble.


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If you leave it there, then you have to somehow note the controversy surrounding its existence-non-existence.


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There are several AI's, including philosophical dissertations, in which its existence is asserted for granted and is not questioned.


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And there is a semi-fiction book by Andreev - to which there is detailed criticism - where his existence is questioned.


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And what, should we reflect all these disputes in the preamble?


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—Alexander Ustimenko 07:13, January 13, 2012


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(UTC)


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Clarification.


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My objection to this information in the preamble is not categorical - it is only a proposal to lighten the preamble from secondary information.


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But if the mediators consider the presence of this information in the preamble necessary, then I have serious comments on the non-neutral form of its presentation.


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But this can be discussed only after the mediators have made a fundamental decision to include or exclude it from the preamble.


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—Alexander Ustimenko 07:23, January 13, 2012


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(UTC)


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I have already said above that the preamble in this edition is in the right form, not overloaded, not burdened, corresponds to the AI.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Information about Mahatma Moria is in no way secondary, since it was from him, according to AI and the Roerichs themselves, that they received and recorded the teaching.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Vajrapani 18:29, January 13, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

I have given my arguments above - what I think the preamble is overloaded and what I see as its gaps.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

You have given your opinion.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Now our common task, together with the facilitators, is to work out the best version of the preamble.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

By the way, in the current version of the preamble, information about Mahatma Moria is presented as if he was an invention of the Roerichs, and not information from the AI.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Read carefully how these two proposals are submitted - “according to Elena and Nikolai Roerichs...” - although this statement comes from several authoritative academic sources, which means does not require additional attribution.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

And then - “the question of existence... remains controversial.”


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

If we add up 1+1 we get - the Roerichs claimed its existence, but this information is controversial.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

And why, then, put controversial information in the preamble?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

If there is AI, it means we enter without such cunning attribution; there are no serious AI with confirmation of information, so we do not enter at all.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Alexander Ustimenko 08:35, January 16, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

The invention of the Roerichs is described in AI.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

For information on how to describe this circumstance, see the example of “clairvoyance” in clause 2.1 of decision AK:537.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Everything is correctly written in the preamble now, and the statements of the Roerichs should be written, since the article should not “hush up the fact” further in the text.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Dear participant, I ask you not to ignore the decisions of the AK on the topic, which is the umpteenth time you have to refer there.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Vajrapani 11:53, 16 January 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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No it's not like that.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

This is not an invention of the Roerichs.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

There are a number of AIs that study this issue in sufficient detail and do not question the existence of the Mahatmas of the East.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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These are real personalities.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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One of them is Moriah.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

The question is whether to focus on this in the preamble of the article, because there is an article by Mahatma Moriya on Wikipedia.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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I think it's enough to link to it, rather than discuss in the Living Ethics article the reality of this person's existence.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Alexander Ustimenko 07:18, January 18, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

After a dispute about the reality of a certain entity with superpowers, we put a big fat CLOSE on the dispute about religious teaching.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Van Helsing 07:55, January 18, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Yeah, I noticed a long time ago that all your counterarguments boil down to one thing - close this whole discussion to hell with your grandmother and change nothing.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

A very “meaningful” counterargument... —Alexander Ustimenko 08:03, January 18, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Ad hominem+implicit accusation of something, without explaining why it is something bad, is not a counterargument to the argument about the dispute over the existence of a paranormal phenomenon.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Van Helsing 08:15, January 18, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

According to Alexander's interpretation, the spiritual teaching of the Roerichs is by no means “within the framework” of occultism, but rather includes religion, science, philosophy, etc., etc. - I even have such a primitive understanding I didn't mean it, so it's not my interpretation, it's yours.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

The fact that the Roerichs' teaching is spiritual does not mean that it includes religion, philosophy, etc.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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This means that it includes elements of religion, philosophy, etc.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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and is trying to develop a synthetic approach.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

To be even more precise, the Living Ethics explores and interprets issues traditionally related to the spheres of religion, philosophy, ethics, sociology, pedagogy, psychology.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

And this means that the Living Ethics cannot be unequivocally “attributed” to any of these areas of spiritual existence - that is why I am talking about the need for the most generalizing term in the definition.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Or give three or four particular definitions describing different aspects of this teaching.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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At the same time, I do not insist on every letter of my generalizing definition - I am ready to discuss and improve its wording if the mediators agree with its central idea.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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—Alexander Ustimenko 09:01, January 16, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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“I did not even mean such a primitive understanding, so this is not my interpretation” — you abandon your own previously said words on the WU: “I do not agree with the opinion of the Abiyoyo participant


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(A)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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in terms of synonymity, “spiritual” and “religious”.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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For example, the textbook “Fundamentals of Religious Studies... directly says: “Religion is one of the areas of spiritual culture.” and there is also your topic “Deciphering terms in the definition of “spiritual and moral teaching “”.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

The versions of the preamble you propose with references to supra-religious spirituality trample on the fact that occultism, within which, according to your AI, there is a ZhE, is itself part of religion with its faith in hidden powers.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

A cyclic error is obtained.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Therefore, religious and philosophical doctrine with occult grounds is a correct definition that is consistent with the AI, and your options contradict the AI.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Alas.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Vajrapani 11:53, 16 January 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Yes, the concept of “spiritual” includes the concept of “religious” as part of it.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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But this does not mean that spiritual teaching includes religion.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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This means that there are religious elements in spiritual teaching, but they are non-confessional, i.e.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

are not part of a particular religion, nor do they collectively form a particular religion.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

I wrote about occultism above, and below in the comment.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

You make a logical mistake - if some sources refer the Living Ethics to an occult tradition


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(even if they are authoritative enough), this does not mean that all sources unanimously attribute it to the occult tradition.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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—Alexander Ustimenko 08:00, January 18, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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By the way, I have a big suspicion that the concept of “occult” is also part of the concept of “spiritual”, and you have raised an argument about an insignificant detail.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Who can say whether philosophers consider occultism to be a kind of religion, or a kind of philosophy, or something else?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Kind of religion.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Melirius 21:19, January 19, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

... the words around the repeatedly mentioned phrase “ethical occultism” stand out in bold, and no meaning is attached to it itself... - those words that illustrate the main idea stand out in bold, that Alexander wants to convey to you.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

By the way, “ethical occultism” is a figurative expression that has nothing to do with real occultism.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

It is no coincidence that it takes place in the context of “a kind of ethical occultism”.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

There is no such thing as “ethical occultism” in philosophy.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

We can still agree with the belonging of the Living Ethics to the tradition of esotericism - there is an AI on this topic; but I do not remember anything about the occultism of serious AI.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Alexander Ustimenko 09:01, January 16, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

That is, the dictionary of the Russian Academy of Sciences cited by you, which speaks of ZhE as a doctrine “within the framework of the occult-theosophical tradition”, does not roll?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Ok.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Vajrapani 11:53, 16 January 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

“Those words that illustrate the main idea that Alexander wants to convey to you stand out in bold” — I understand your idea and method of interpreting AI, so I wrote comments.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

You failed to convince me that it is the main thing for you, but contradicts the main thing in the AI, and I hope others too.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Vajrapani 11:53, 16 January 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

I would like to highlight the main idea of Vajrapani - “in terms of sources, the Living Ethics belongs to the occult-theosophical tradition, so it cannot be a spiritual teaching, since this concept is broader than the concept of “occultism”.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

I think that the mediators understand the inferiority of raising the question in this way.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

There are many sources that define the Living Ethics - and these definitions are different.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Religious sources define this doctrine from one point of view, philosophical - on the other, cultural - from a third point of view.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

We cannot take the position of only one part of the sources - we must provide a generalizing definition.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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This is the essence of my proposal.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Alexander Ustimenko 07:12, January 18, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Your attempt, Alexander, to highlight the “main idea of Vajrapani” is already crossing the line.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

The idea you quoted, designed and far-fetched by you does not belong to me, but is your writing addressed to me.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Does anyone understand why Oleksandr Ustimenko is trying to impose on others what I did not say, as an alleged fact of “inferiority”, allegedly “intermediaries understand”?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

All my comments here are already written to help them.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Alexander, I did not make proposals, but only disavowed your statements and proposals for changing the current preamble, since the sources you present refute your arguments, and you seem to you don't notice it and start all over again.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Vajrapani 14:18, 18 January 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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I did not say that I was quoting you - I said that I would highlight your main point.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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I thought and believe that I singled it out correctly - you deny the definition of “spiritual teaching” on the basis that a number of sources refer the Living Ethics to an occult tradition.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Repeated quote: “According to Alexander's interpretation, the spiritual teaching of the Roerichs is by no means “within the framework” of occultism, but rather includes religion, science, philosophy, etc.” I.e.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

in your opinion, the Living Ethics is within the framework of occultism and therefore cannot be a spiritual teaching that summarizes different traditions.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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If you really don't think so, then we have nothing to argue about: The Living Ethics is included by some sources within the framework of occultism, and at the same time generalizes different traditions


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(religious, philosophical, moral and ethical, etc.), i.e.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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is a spiritual teaching.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Alexander Ustimenko 06:37, January 19, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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“Does anyone understand why...” - I have no idea.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Van Helsing 14:24, January 18, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

“We cannot take the position of only one part of the sources - we must present a generalizing definition. This is the essence of my proposal.” — if this is the only point, I have to say that the proposal contradicts the rules, since the generalizing definition will be an ORISS of pure water.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Wikipedia, according to WES, should present the most common definition in authoritative sources.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Melirius 11:07, January 18, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

I disagree here: the generalizing consensus definition according to authoritative sources is quite far from the border of ORISSA.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

For example, if a phenomenon can be determined only by the full sum of opinions of various specialists - religious scholars, philosophers


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(in the sense of scientific), sociologists, psychologists, criminologists, psychiatrists - it is possible to draw up a definition that will not be an original study.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Another thing is that if you pursue goals that do not coincide with the goal of creating an accurate and verifiable encyclopedia, you can build not only an orissa, but also an occult definition.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Van Helsing 11:24, January 18, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

You're wrong on two counts.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

1. The current definition of a former Q Valda participant in the preamble to the Living Ethics is just such


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(failed)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

an attempt at a generalizing definition, compiled from several sources - i.e.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

orissom according to your understanding - which Van Helsing very sensitively noted.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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2. The definition of the Living Ethics “spiritual teaching” is present in several authoritative sources, so orissom cannot be.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

I propose it because it is the most general one.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Alexander Ustimenko 06:25, January 19, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

1. Remind you


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(my highlight): “I like the following description of Agni Yoga's syncretism from Yablokov's textbook: “Syncretic religious and philosophical views are developed in Agni Yoga... The Living Ethics continues the tradition of synthesis of philosophy, science, religion, cultures of East and West, initiated by theosophy.” No objections?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Alexander Ustimenko 09:04, September 13, 2011


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)”?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

The definition from the preamble is not ORISS, but an accurate statement of this source.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

2. I have not yet seen the definition in one phrase, which boils down to “The Living Ethics is a spiritual teaching”, point your finger.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Melirius 15:39, January 19, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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1. I'm not refusing my words.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

But the problem is that in Yablokov's textbook, syncretism is understood as a synthesis of various forms of spiritual culture


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(philosophy, science, religion, culture) - and Wikipedia defines religious syncretism, that is, religious syncretism,


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

synthesis exclusively within the framework of one form of spiritual culture - religious.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

By the way, they recalled that it turns out that Yablokov's textbook, not in form, but in fact, also speaks of the Living Ethics as a spiritual teaching, in the sense of synthesizing various forms of spiritual culture.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

2. The definition from the preamble contains references to the sources from which it is compiled.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Easy to check out.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Alexander Ustimenko 06:14, January 21, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

1. Tell me a link to Yablokov in electronic form — I want to check in what sense he understands syncretism.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

There are no complaints about “religious and philosophical views” = “religious and philosophical doctrine”?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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2. I agree, I found it, crossed it out.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Melirius 20:13, January 21, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

1. Link to.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

If you follow Yablokov's textbook exactly, then there will be “a philosophical and ethical doctrine that develops syncretic religious and philosophical views.”


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

What I like about this definition is that it notes the philosophical, ethical and religious components of the Living Ethics.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

The only thing missing is the interpretation of the concept of “syncretic views”.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Alexander Ustimenko 07:04, January 22, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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I am almost ready to agree with this definition.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

We must go, and I will clarify my position tomorrow.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Melirius 16:19, January 22, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Van Helsing comment


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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At this point, it is obvious to me that I can't throw away more than six months of discussions and brainheads, proofreading sources, etc., and my own and Q Valda.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Almost everything that participant Oleksandr Ustimenko writes was discussed earlier, other discussions cross-arose, and it is easy to prove that the participant has seen them at least.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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What I want to say right away.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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1. A Wikipedia article will not resemble an article written by a member].


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

2. I consider both the beginning and the continuation of this discussion to be extremely unconstructive.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

I notice how, on broken or reasonably questioned arguments or sources, as was presented again and again by a participant for the first time, other participants conduct the discussion without taking into account more early discussions - Oleksandr Ustimenko simply does not say that many aspects have already been considered earlier and he has received explanations, arguments, justifications, etc.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

What do I offer?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

It is obviously pointless to ask the participant to correct his position: dozens of requests have been ignored.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Should I ask him to compare what he presented here with the discussions that have already taken place?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Pay attention to the counterarguments presented?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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The participant did not react properly when he was shown that he was quoting Simazhenkova so selectively that he was already losing his nerves.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Currently, I see the only way out to leave the topic, noting that all changes made by incorrect ways of reaching consensus will accordingly not be consensus.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Van Helsing 14:56, January 18, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

I understand you perfectly well - I also spent six months of my time, health and effort to explain quite obvious things to you with Q Valda and achieve a mediation procedure in this topic.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Yes, there have been extensive discussions before, but the parties in these discussions did not reach an agreement and did not recognize the validity of each other's arguments.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

This is why mediation is necessary to resolve these disputes, which have not ended in any result.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

After all, none of those topics have been summed up, including the discussion at the TR that forms the basis of my application.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Therefore, I consider your statement not constructive.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Of course, your right to participate or not in the further process of finding consensus, but the results that the mediators will sum up on this topic will be quite legitimate and consensual.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Alexander Ustimenko 06:54, January 19, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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According to Simanzhenkova's dissertation, there is a continuation in the topic on the SO Living Ethics with an abundance of quotes and my analysis.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

It is also up to the intermediaries to decide whether I am right or wrong in this analysis.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Given the last 3 precedents


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Attribution of thoughts to Vajrapani.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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2. Ignoring the evidentiary requirements for your claims.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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3. “the definition of a former Q Valda participant is just such


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(failed)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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an attempt at a generalizing definition compiled from several sources — which Van Helsing noted very sensitively.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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“- I did not notice anything like that at all.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Such actions to alter the meaning are unacceptable.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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), your way of working with sources is quite clear, and the prospects for further discussions too.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

VP:5C expressly requires that conflicts of interest be avoided.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

In all the situations with your participation, it was obvious to most participants that you were not even trying to meet this requirement, and therefore I will stop further discussions in this format.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Van Helsing 07:10, January 19, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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upd: The participant presented an extremely unsuitable justification.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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At the request of any participant without CI, I will present a devastating essay on this kind of “evidence” “part of the AI, for example, Yablokov's religious studies textbook or Simanzhenkova's philosophical dissertation, exclude Living Ethics from the family of occult teachings.”


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Van Helsing 07:51, January 19, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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To the end


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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I propose to interrupt the obsession of the discussion of the issue stated by the participant Alexander Ustimenko with a final comment in order to put an end to it.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Topikstarter, among other things, is the following: “We have nothing to argue about: The Living Ethics is included by some sources within the framework of occultism, and at the same time summarizes different traditions


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(religious, philosophical, moral and ethical, etc.), that is, it is a spiritual teaching.”


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Thus, an agreement has been reached on the framework of occultism.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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As for the generalization of Agni Yoga listed by the participant of the “different traditions”, it has a very definite name — syncretism, and this aspect is already reflected in the preamble in accordance with AI


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(Yablokov), who directly considers Living Ethics as “a non-confessional syncretic religious philosophy”.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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The AI that GE “is a spiritual teaching” was never presented by the topikstarter, and there were proposals to agree to the participant's original study on the topic of spirituality.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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The proposal to change the preamble remained unfounded and was not supported by the participants, as the sources provided by the topikstarter only confirmed the correctness of the existing version of the preamble


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(first of all, this applies to the main definition of the teachings of the ZhE as religious and philosophical), or they were unauthoritative


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(for example, Khachatryan's work; see item 2.4 AK:537).


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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The proposal to include several definitions in the preamble has already been implemented in the form of a note


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(it only remains to be formatted as a comment to distinguish it from a note).


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Proposals for the deletion of certain information from the preamble


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(for example, Mahatma Moriah)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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also did not receive support, since, in particular, they were based on a premise that contradicts the instructions from paragraph 2.1 of the decision of the AK: 537.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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For this, I think the proposals for changing the preamble from Alexander Ustimenko have been worked out.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Vajrapani 20:16, January 19, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Additional information to support the current preamble


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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The current definition of Agni Yoga in the preamble — “a syncretic religious and philosophical doctrine that combines the Western occult-theosophical tradition and the esotericism of the East” — quite correctly reflects the content of AI and the teaching itself, and in this wording, each element is important and confirmed by AI — syncretic, religious-philosophical, occult-theosophical, esotericism.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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In addition to the available sources, I ask those summarizing the results to take into account the following AI.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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In Western sources, Agni Yoga is clearly considered as a form of theosophy and occultism


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(see, for example, boxing works: “The occult in Russian and Soviet culture”, “Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology”, etc.), and Roerich himself is called not only an occultist, but even a “channeler”


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(see H.Oldmeadow).


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Dr. ist.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Andreev A. I. wrote: “modern Roerich scholars, biographers N. K. and E.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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I., they try to avoid the topic of “occultism of the Roerichs” - it is very inconvenient for them.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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They say, as a rule, about N. K. and E.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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AND. India and the East in general, about their familiarity with the teachings of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(neo-Vedantism), that's all.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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As if occultism is something incompatible with the Roerichs, compromising them.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Meanwhile, the Roerichs went the same way as E.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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P. Blavatsky and many other spiritual teachers of the 19th and 20th centuries And their occultism began with spiritualism — table spinning”


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(Himalayan Brotherhood. Theosophical myth and its creators. — St. Petersburg University Press, St. Petersburg, 2008. — P.157).


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Perhaps this is the reason why some participants protect the preamble from the “occult”.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Since Agni Yoga is repeatedly mentioned in AI as a form of theosophy, it is quite natural for Agni Yoga


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(within the theosophical family)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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can be distributed, which reads: “Syncretic religious-mystical teaching”.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

This once again confirms the validity of the definition currently available in the preamble.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(update: Britannica also defines Blavatsky's Theosophy as religious philosophy and occult movement Vajrapani 09:57, January 27, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC))


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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As additional information for those who summarize, I cite more sources about Mahatma Moriah:


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

And in addition to the comments available on the affiliation of some sources:


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Vajrapani 12:28, 23 January 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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For those who summarize the AI: that the followers of the Roerichs are a new religious movement, as both our and foreign AI are talking about


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(see references in the article's preamble).


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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For example:... some Russian new religions arose in Soviet times — for example, “Ivanovtsy” <... >, as well as followers of the teachings of E.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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I. and N. K. Roerichs


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Since the teachings of the Roerichs formed a religious movement


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(new religion), it is extremely important to emphasize the religiosity of the doctrine in the preamble to the GE.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Vajrapani 10:17, January 25, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Determining ZhE is neutral, which necessarily means balanced, is to highlight the main characteristic of the teaching: religious-theosophic-esoterical-occult.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

GE has long been synonymous with esotericism within the framework of the theosophical and occult tradition, which is the basis of new age and various NSD


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(By the way, NSD can be deciphered very symbolically — “New Age Roerich Movement”).


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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When defining ZhE, the occult aspect should essentially prevail over the lively “ethical orientation” of the doctrine and other “tinsel” such as “scientific and practical (!)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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conferences” on ZhE, organized by followers of religious teaching.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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The second title of exercise


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(Live Ethics)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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appeared against the background of the activities of the Roerichs with the Pact, when, for practical needs, the Roerichs deliberately emphasized the “cultural” and “ethical” aspect of their activities.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

The teaching itself, as it was “supermundane” in nature, continued.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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The analysis of sources shows that the presence in the source of silence or denial of the occultism of the ZhE or the emphasis on the spirituality/ethical nature of the doctrine indicates its affiliation or marginality.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Vajrapani 12:26, 26 January 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Illustration from the source: “The disguise of the Roerich people as “culture” is so radical that it causes annoyance even among the Roerich people themselves. From the point of view of those who take Agni Yoga seriously, reducing the Roerich heritage to culture and paintings is an unacceptable revision, rejection of the main thing and even betrayal.<... > But much more carefully, than their political bias, the Roerich people hide their religiosity. And the fact that their “esoteric” cult, their “New Age religion”, avoids compliance with the law on religious organizations, makes the Roerich movement an illegal sect.” Vajrapani 16:28, 26 January 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Insightful comments from participants


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Do you train suggestion from a distance?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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I mean, for the section “To the Result”, I would like to see a more detailed argumentation and a meaningful analysis of the opponent's arguments.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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—Alexander Ustimenko 06:17, January 21, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Please show us the place where you reacted adequately to this argument and analysis.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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In addition, I would like to see proof of the statement implicitly contained in the remark that there above - there is no detailed reasoning and a meaningful analysis of the arguments.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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—Van Helsing 21:02, January 22, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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The arguments presented above are so superficial and so “off topic” of the proposals I have voiced that I simply ignored it.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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But if you insist... 1. The main part of her argument comes down to criticizing my actions - that I single out one part of the definitions in the AI, ignoring the other parts.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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But I highlight in the AI what is missing from the current version of the preamble of the article, of course, omitting what is already there.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Vajrapani still does not seem to understand this - she cites some new sources about the part of the characteristics of the Living Ethics that are already in the preamble - but this does not negate the bias and one-sidedness, and therefore non-neutrality of the current definition of this doctrine.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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There are quite authoritative sources that highlight other characteristics of the Living Ethics that are not reflected in the preamble at this time.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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2. It ignored many of my arguments and suggestions, such as my proposals for additions and exceptions to/from the preamble, as well as my detailed analysis of non-neutrality and bias now the existing preamble to the article.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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3. A completely inadequate interpretation of the AK:537 decision on the example of assessing Khachatryan's dissertation - if the AK decision rightly says about the lack of weight of the Living Ethics's views on the family and the woman - even if Khachatryan has a dissertation on this topic, to include them in the articles Woman and Family; Vajrapani tries to interpret this part of the decision broadly, referring it to entering information into the article Live Ethics.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Khachatryan's dissertation is devoted to the study of one of the aspects of the Living Ethics - pedagogical, which means that he has sufficient weight in the article on the Living Ethics


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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—Alexander Ustimenko 06:03, January 24, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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You should not attribute to Vajrapani alone that we tell you everything in chorus: you should not work with sources like this, and you should not forget that you have been told many times in other discussions.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

I can draw a boundary between confirmed theses and unsubstantiated statements, separate incorrect generalizations/inductions/deduction no worse than Q Valda.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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If for quite some time you have been told where problems are in your constructions, but you have not reacted properly and corrected your behavior, there is nothing you can do it.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

In fact, adherents of the Living Ethics are uncritical and inadequate about their views, why there is no consensus for their use as confirming sources.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Say hello to Voyager for you?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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—Van Helsing 10:16, January 24, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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What are you saying about Voyager?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Did he answer my question about “all other things being equal”?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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—Alexander Ustimenko 06:42, January 25, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Do you have any idea what Voyager has to do with it?


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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But I see your remarks directly under it in the Discussion: Live Ethics #Трактовки section of AK decisions on the applications of VP:346 and VP:537.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Assertions in your replica 06:03, January 24, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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paragraph above, including Vajrapani's accusations, ignore his explanations “... Therefore, we once again reminded the community that the right approach is to rely on secondary sources whenever possible, leaving the primary sources as illustrative


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(rather than justifying anything)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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material, as well as in cases where this does not cause controversy.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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In general, the situation is something like this.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Ilya Voyager


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(A, C)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

12:43, September 28, 2011


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)” and give you one more reason to ignore yourself.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Van Helsing 09:04, January 25, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Yes, and one should not try to pass off the otherworldly “dissertation” of Khachatryan, an adherent of esoteric teachings, as a secondary source.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Paragraph 2.4 of VP:537 clearly states that the significance and prevalence of its considerations should be determined by secondary authoritative sources.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

You should not answer 3 kb of text, where this is not clearly and unequivocally recognized.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

—Van Helsing 09:14, January 25, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Please try to avoid insulting the authors cited here and their dissertations.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Please provide evidence of Khachatryan's affiliation with the Roerich movement.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Please also state your understanding of clause 2.4.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

VP:537 regarding Khachatryan's dissertation: in what cases and articles it is not authoritative.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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—Alexander Ustimenko 06:19, January 26, 2012


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Point your finger at which of the things I have listed on this page you consider to be primary sources.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

(UTC)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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There are other, more neutral definitions of theosophy, for example, from the Newest Dictionary of Philosophy, ed.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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A.A.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Gritsanova: “THEOSOPHY


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(Greek theos -God and sorhia-wisdom, knowledge)


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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- the doctrine of knowledge of God


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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(as opposed to theology, which is based on the idea of revelation and the dogma of the church) based on non - confessional esoteric experience.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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T. includes Gnosticism, hermeticism, Rosicrucian worldview, etc.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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In the Middle Ages, this term correlates with the mystical teachings of Boehme, Paracelsus, L.K.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Saint Martin, Count of Saint-Germain and others.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

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Schelling used the term “T.” to refer to the synthesis of mystical knowledge of God and rational philosophy.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

Close to this is the concept of “free T.” in V. Solovyova.


Question: How many directions in the Roerich movement are currently distinguished?

Preamble

T. received a fundamental and comprehensive presentation in the works of Blavatsky.