Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This article is extremely difficult, both in Tyusheni and in what else I could check through and through (and even then sometimes something slips) - I can't here, a huge number of text and sources - so these come out stuff.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Thank you very much for your help, I will test myself again and ask Majestad to do the same.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

In my opinion, the section “Defeats of leper colonies” is written somewhat chaotic.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This applies primarily to the first three paragraphs.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Logical connections need to be more clearly built between them.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

And it may be better to place this section after the Jews, because then it will be immediately clear why lepers were accused of collusion with the Jews.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Igqirha 06:43, December 2, 2011 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'll think about it.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The section is still built according to the system from smaller to larger.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This really corresponds to how the flywheel of repression gained speed.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

First, chaotic rumors about the guilt of the rich, beggars, strangers are necessary to emphasize.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Scattered murders of individuals who didn't like there.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Then the lepers - this path was already trodden.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There is a motive for poisoning wells - also nothing new, it was tested earlier.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

But there are few lepers, moreover, their extermination does not stop the epidemic.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

We must look for new culprits.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Oh, eureka, it's Jews!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

In hindsight, they think they're connected to lepers... and off we go.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

By the way, notice that when the Jews died, the next target was witches.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

It's getting wider, so to speak.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

But this is a later stage.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Advise me on the best way to do it.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 04:05, December 9, 2011 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

from Azgar


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

As usual, the footnotes are designed in some way.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Because of this, it is not clear where the information is confirmed by reliable AI, and where it leads to the essay site or “The World Around Us”.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The sfn template is used incorrectly, generally a mess.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The eternal “g”, “gg”, “thousand” and other abbreviations are very annoying.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The colorful style, which has already been said a lot, is also highly questionable.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Constantly encountered in the text “wrote the chronicler” cause bewilderment, since it is completely unclear what kind of chronicler he is, or rather such.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There are also common surnames without attribution, it is not clear how sideways related to the topic of the article at all (like the mention of Genschel).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Terminology suffers: princes, chroniclers appear in Byzantium, manuscripts and other legacies of the translated nature of the text are written.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Minor inaccuracies like the chronicle for 6854 (as if the whole vault was for this year).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

In the middle of the story about the spread of plague in the Golden Horde, it is reported that “At the same time, a quarter of the population of Transcarpathia died out from the plague”, introducing the reader into a state of trance.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The mention of galleys that arrived from Romania (and this is in 1348!) is also puzzling.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Azgar 14:07, December 27, 2011 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

It's all about the case.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Ghirla -chatter- 18:28, December 27, 2011 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Transcarpathia removed - this is the rest of the option that was in the article before starting work.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There is some dubious source - it's better not yet, in a week I'll be able to check it again.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I also removed the prince (I'm losing my tongue...).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

As for Romania, I meant, of course, geographical reference.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

According to Benedictow, she clarified that Western Romania was meant, which was then part of the Kingdom of Hungary.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The chronicler in one case is de Piazza, named by name above, in the next - anonymous authors of the chronicles.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Genschel is the man who found de Mussy's manuscript, and I think it's quite an appropriate mention.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Manuscripts, to be honest, put me in a dead end - the word is quite Russian, I don't understand what can cause complaints?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

That's what I say and write.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The chronicle, of course, was made more than one year, advise how to present it more honorably, and will immediately go to the article.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The style has already been talked about and negotiated - we will not repeat ourselves.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

As you rightly noted, this is not formalized.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 22:22, January 18, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The mention of de Piazza above does not eliminate the need to disclose each time which chronicler is in question, in cases where this is not obvious from the context.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Chroniclers cannot be completely anonymous, since in any case they are assigned one or another historiographic nickname, it is enough to recall Gall Anonymous.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Azgar 19:54, February 2, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I clarified the chronicle, although, apparently, Russev meant the Moscow Code of 1479.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

If you want, you can look at this code, it is published in volume 25 of the PSRL.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Azgar 22:01, February 2, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Manuscripts → manuscripts.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Azgar 23:48, February 2, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

“In early January (1348), two Genoese galleys came from the Kingdom of Hungary, but when they appeared at the fish market, someone spoke to them, and immediately... fell ill and died.”


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

It also doesn't happen when you talk to galleys.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Azgar 18:58, January 28, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Skip the word, thank you.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'll fix it now.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 19:26, January 28, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This sentence is too complicated, there is something messed up in the middle - the meaning is completely lost, it is better to split it into two.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Currently, some researchers question the information contained in the manuscript, believing that, firstly, de Mussy was guided by the then understanding of the spread of the disease through odor in the form of miasmovut, and the plague may have penetrated into the fortress with rat fleas, or, according to M. IN. Supotnitsky, Mussi, returning to Italy and finding the beginning of the epidemic there, mistakenly linked it with the return of Genoese ships.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Anyway, who is this Supotnitsky?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

It is introduced into the narrative only far below in the text, and even then it turns out that a biologist (i.e. unauthoritative in history).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Azgar 01:13, February 3, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I also put a template to clarify there, because I don't know how to enter this Benedictow and how exactly his name is spelled (maybe Ole).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

For the Norwegian names “Ole” and “Ole”, as I understand it, are used about the same.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Ole Jørgen Benediktow, Professor of Medievalism, University of Oslo.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

(Professor i middelalderhistorie) We will ask the curator about the rest, this will be the best option.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 23:59, February 3, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

“From here, moving to the South, the plague devastated Glukhov and Chernihiv, devastated the territory of modern Ukraine and finally disappeared into the Wild Steppe”


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

It's a strange proposal in terms of meaning.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Both Chernihiv and the Wild Field (called the Wild Steppe for some reason) are essentially the honor of the modern territory of Ukraine.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This issue needs to be clarified.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Perhaps Benedictow himself is at odds with geography.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Azgar 09:18, February 5, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

My mistake has already been fixed, thank you.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

As for the Wild Steppe, this is what Russian-speaking journalists write here.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

You see, it doesn't match.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I will not be mistaken in Russian or Western European history, because I am not mistaken.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I know who or what I'm talking about, but I don't know much about the South.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The meaning of the phrase was that in addition to these cities, the plague walked throughout Ukraine.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Thank you for noticing, you can watch the new version.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 17:08, February 5, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I don't like the new one either, the mention of Ukraine is completely superfluous, since the Wild Field is not limited to the territory of Ukraine at all.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Azgar 17:12, February 5, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

You're not going to please.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

;-) I'm cleaning up.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 17:47, February 5, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

New (February 26)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

“Kelly, 1987” — what is it?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Refers to an unknown place.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

If you have a book, you need to check what kind of publication you mean.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Azgar 12:41, February 26, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Chronicler


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The topic is really complex, complex, and requires either the use of a tertiary review source, the author of which has conscientiously systematized all secondary and primary, or independent rechecking all details from different sources.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

So far, neither is in the article.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Moreover, the article does not even contain a “Literature” section (!).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

And it is quite large, I downloaded a few books from Gigapedia (for example, Stuart R. Borsch. The Black Death in Egypt and England. Comparative Study. University of Texas Press, 2005), including two collections of primary sources (European and Arabic), although they do not disclose the subject as a whole, they do contain bibliography.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Two solid tertiary sources were taken for the article: Philipp Ziegler, who specially studied the bibliography of the Black Death, and Ole Bedeniktow.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The second, rather, systematizes the known information.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This source, although in a very compressed form is on the net - please.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Please.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Next, about transcription.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

You, Chronicler, if I'm not mistaken, did not work with oriental languages - and I did.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There is constantly this misfortune - when it comes to old records - especially chronicles or letters of Europeans, the names were written by ear, who is much in what they say.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

By the way, the Chinese and Japanese have the same song, let's take one of the old treatises on Chinese officers in Okinawa.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There we will find a figure named Iwaa.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Tell me, the Chinese have had these names, huh?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

And what, sorry, if you find this and you can't cross-check it?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

It's the same song here - the recordings were made by ear, preserved in such a distorted program - and until the original documents dating back to that era are read - sorry, nothing can be done.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This is not your fault or mine - the situation, unfortunately, is as follows, and this is not the first or the last case.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The only thing - I can put a comment with an explanation - probably even this will be the best way out.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'm sorry if you are seriously starting to ask the question of whether there are original documents in China (!!! with its cult of history), you step on a slippery slope leading to a well-known pseudoscientific heresy (and you can also doubt whether there was China at all);) It should be taken as an axiom that they exist, that in Chinese all important events (and epidemics, of course, relate to such) are recorded in the texts, and secondary sources, at least Chinese, are considered.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I see no subject to dispute except to assess the extent of my ignorance, yours and ours.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 19:46, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

A book by epidemiologist Wu Lade, who specially dealt with this topic, has already been ordered.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'm waiting from day to day.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The question is not “are there documents in China” — this is simply illiterate.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Have they been studied, read (and let's not forget that the ancient wenyan differs from the baihua as the sky from the earth, and it is impossible to defeat it just like that, without special training).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

However, this is in the past, the books have been received, the section has been written.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'll see it again, though.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Let's start with the structure.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

First, this is still an article about a global event, and not about Europe with an arbitrary set of information that reached Europeans (which the dates in the preamble “1346—1351” do not correspond to).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Further, it is possible to describe events chronologically, regionally and thematically, so far these principles are mixed up, and this does not contribute to understanding.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Suggest your option.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Now the article is based on the principle - 1. Chronology 2. Medical description 3. Psychology 4. The consequences.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

All parts, as you can imagine, flow from one another.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Before the Black Death, Europe was little familiar with the plague - in the centuries that have passed since the Justinian epidemic, they had forgotten well (see Favier and Kelly).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

When the Black Death first came, doctors were sure that it was okay, saying, “no one would die of the plague using my pill” (Nol).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Therefore, the first thing we set is the chronology — the deployment of the epidemic.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Then the clinical picture is what and how they saw it.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

3. What reaction this picture caused.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

And finally 4 — what it led to.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

If you have other suggestions, go ahead.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Criticizing indiscriminately - you must admit that the occupation is not for me or for you.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'm waiting for specifics on how to do it better.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

If there are no offers, we leave it as it is.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

In principle, it is more or less good, taking into account the additions made about the reasons (and in fact this is the first section).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I would suggest the following: (1) separate all numerical scores into a separate subsection (and remove from the preamble).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Strictly speaking (and this should be clear to the reader) there are no and cannot be accurate estimates of the number of victims, but there are separate ways to estimate their number (in some very small areas of Europe, such calculations are archaeologically made), to varying degrees hypothetical.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

If they are contradictory, then let it be seen.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

(2) This suggests a section with a list of known victims of the epidemic.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

First of all, it will be the aristocracy (you can view the categories in English speakers for the dead in the corresponding years).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

In itself, the number of victims among the European aristocracy (and the highest clergy) can be estimated more accurately than for any other group of the population (although it is likely that it was noticeably lower than for common people).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 19:46, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

(3) And by the way, the image of the plague in the culture of modern and modern times is obviously not limited to cinema.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

From historical novels, I can immediately recall “Simeon the Proud” by Dmitry Balashov (about Russia) and “Christine, Daughter of Lawrence” by Sigrid Unset (about Norway), where there are chapters on the plague, but this is definitely an incomplete list.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 20:29, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'm sorry, don't you understand?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Do you want a table - like Supotnitsky's, with mortality data?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

It won't take long to rip it off - like copyright?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Or something else?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Explain it in more detail before I just understand your point.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 02:32, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Well, I suspect that he also ripped someone off (if he does not give sources for each item).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Yes, it would be nice to have a table for different countries, cities (where data are available) and regions, but not bare figures of unclear reliability, but rather brief characteristics of the incidence rate in individual regions and summary figures on total mortality around the world (so far they are scattered and contradictory).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Urlanis, for example, in his long-standing work “Population Growth in Europe” (M., 1941. P. 346-347) is not inclined to overestimate the number of victims: he points out that the high mortality rate was primarily in cities, and 30-40% for the urban population give 1/7-1/8 part for Europe and 1/20 for Russia.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

In principle, it is possible to combine such a table with a chronology section, it already contains separate figures (although this may be too cumbersome).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 20:17, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Yes, and for personalities, see en:Category:14th-century deaths from bubonic plague and Category:Deaths of the plague.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 20:40, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The lack of resolution of the question of the place of a particular Black Death epidemic among the plague epidemic allows the authors to arbitrarily attract individual information about the plague of other periods, while it is not clear why they are the ones who are involved, and the topic of “plague in general” remains unsolved.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

See below.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This is one of the issues that we discussed with the curator.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'll explain it again.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There are two classifications - one of which is used by William Neufee - this is a solid score, if you like, when number one is Black Death, then the so-called.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

second epidemic, mountain plague, etc.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

right up to the last outbreaks.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The second classification is the account for pandemics - there are three of them.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

We decided on the second option - now it will be included in the article.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Anything.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

With the authors' indifference to the chronology, the phrase also fits perfectly: “However, there were also cases of asceticism, so, according to legend, at this time there is a story of a hermit named Roch, selflessly who cared for the sick, later canonized by the Catholic Church” - why does the article about St. Roch report that he died in 1327?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Sorry Chronicler, I don't recognize you.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Since when do you read so inattentively?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There are two — you know — two hypotheses about St.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Roch.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The first is that he died in 1327.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

But look at the iconography - he is depicted with a plague bubo on his thigh.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The problem is that in 1327 no plague was heard of.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

That's why I. Nol believes that it should be 1347 in the real year.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Anything!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This point is specially noted.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

If it's not clear, let's explain why I'm asking for community opinion?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Okay, the clarification has been accepted.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 19:46, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

To characterize natural disasters as “causes” is, of course, quite in the medieval spirit, but it somehow does not fit much with VP:NTZ, not to mention the scientific approach.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

It is possible to refer (and with attribution) to those disasters that in medieval sources are associated with the plague, but with a clear indication of who and why.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The “Beginning of the Epidemic” section should in any way precede the Chronicle.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

That's where it is.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Or has anyone already worked today?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

We'll get it back in place now.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

On the topic of natural disasters as “causes”, more precisely, triggers.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Here you go in English.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

In Russian, we look at the same thing at Supotnitsky.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

If you want Kelly and Nol, give me time when the libraries open after the holidays, I'll give you direct quotes.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The medieval approach is good, don't you think?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'm sorry, you're a little wrong about this.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Taking into account the clarifications made, it is relatively normal.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

It is clear that hygienic conditions, etc.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

- not the cause of the plague in itself, but the factors that increased the number of victims.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

:: Accepted.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

:-) Thanks for your help!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The question of when the plague ended, and whether subsequent epidemics (for example, in Russia in 1365 and 1426) were caused by the same bacterium, is not disclosed in the article, the phrase “It is assumed that the same disease returned to Europe every generation with different degrees of intensity and mortality until the 1700s” has no reference to the source.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

William Neyfee.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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You're right here, there'll be a footnote right now.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Done When it ended, in 1353


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Well, in 1353 (taking into account Russia and Iceland).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

At least the first wave, there were, of course, numerous returns.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The bag has been fixed.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'm sorry, this is an accident.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

About returns - added.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There are so many small errors that it makes no sense to dwell on them until the most important ones are resolved.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

And the most important one should include the question of the plague in China: the references in the article are so strange that an amateur should have questions about whether Chinese sources actually wrote about it at all and, if so, What.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Please.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The situation here is as follows: Chinese and Indian sources of this time have hardly been studied in Western science.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

What I gave you, I'll pick you up a couple more things - but that's it.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The topic of the Black Death in the East is still waiting for its researcher.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I give the whole basis in the article, as a conscientious person, I'll look for more, of course.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

If you have other details, please provide them.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'm waiting.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Well, to begin with, Middle Eastern sources are also very poorly represented in the article - although it cannot be said here that the issue has not been studied in Western science: in addition to Borsh's book, to which I am above referred, there is a book: Dols M.W. The Black Death in the Middle East.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Princeton UP, 1977, and in Biraben J.N. Les Hommes et la Peste en France et dans les Pays Européens et Méditerranéens. Tomes 1-2. Paris, 1975-1976), which is highly praised by Cambridge medieval history, the Mediterranean should also be covered somehow.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

But the most important thing is not this - do you see a blatant contradiction - on the one hand, the issue of the plague in Asia is poorly covered, but on the other hand, this does not prevent the same researchers from boldly extrapolating European mortality data and estimates of millions of victims.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 19:46, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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This is the situation.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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There is a known decline in the population - but how much of this was due to the plague, and how much was due to famine and floods - this is really the question.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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I will clarify this point in the article.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Dols is ordered.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Zoe 20:13, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

McNeill (McNeill 1976, p.143-144) has a figure of 2/3 of deaths in China (and for the second wave of the epidemic, 1353/54), but here we need to look at what Chinese sources he refers to.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There is a book by Borovkova (1971) about the fall of the Yuan dynasty in Russian, and we will have to take a look, this issue should be considered at least briefly there.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 23:10, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I looked at Borovkova's book.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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She is quite a serious sinologist who studied the sources of that time very well.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Of course, her attention is focused on describing the military vicissitudes of the war for independence, but there is no doubt that the proportionality of the presentation follows the original sources.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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It regularly celebrates famine for the 1340s, and a major epidemic for 1344, when Yellow River changed its course and “famine and epidemics in those parts claimed almost half of the population” (Red Troops Uprising in China. M., 1971, P. 41, 77) and for the late 1350s: terrible famine, locusts and the epidemic in Dadu (P. 105).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Chronicler 18:39, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And here is the Chinese author Wu Han (Biography of Zhu Yuanzhang. M., 1980. P.59), talking about the events of 1354, writes: “countless people died of hunger; epidemics began”; and the authors of the 7th volume of “Cambridge History of China” for some reason tend to talk only about the military actions, keeping silent about the plague.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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So, you know, I can't help but shudder the courage of some authors who are ready to kill two-thirds of all Chinese with a stroke of a pen (although in the end all this probably goes back to too much emotional estimates of Chinese authors themselves of the XIV century); although, of course, the first population census after the war was conducted only in 1393, and the problem of interpretation remains.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Chronicler 23:34, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Well, it's not me who kills the Chinese, but William Neufee, but it doesn't matter.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Look - that's why the article says - it is not known what part fell on the plague.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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It's unknown!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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There were also floods and famine.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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There are more or less figures, but what the people died from, and what share each of these three factors took is a question.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Therefore, let's leave it like this for now and wait for the books ordered.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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I have completely exhausted everything I had.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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It's a few days, they won't make the weather.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 02:42, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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For India, the main sources are obviously English-language, and I will try to look for information here, including the English translation of the most important Persian-language chronicles (I wrote about the second quarter of the 14th century).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

For China, see above and below.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 19:46, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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I took a little look.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The fact is that the 23-volume New Cambridge of India is not built very systematically, many materials are not considered there.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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I turned to an old edition (Cambridge History of India. Vol. 3. Cambridge UP, 1928), and discovered the following.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Although the book contains a fairly detailed account of the reign of Muhammad Shah Tughlak (1325-1351) (mainly according to the historian Barani), it only mentions that (p.149) in 1335 his army was struck by an epidemic (“probably cholera”), and in 1335-1342, a terrible famine broke out throughout North India, resulting in numerous casualties.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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There is no direct mention of the plague.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Persian-speaking historians hardly touch South India.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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So, if some sources (for example, from Persia) mention the plague in India, then its real scope is questionable, to put it mildly.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Chronicler 23:10, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Stop.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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So Benedictow clearly believes that the Black Death did not happen in India, and that the plague appeared there much later.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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On the other hand, Gottfried writes that “the plague has turned South to India.” It makes sense to write both opinions.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Apparently, the truth lies in the middle.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Al-Makrizi writes for nothing, “India has suffered much less...” Let's not rush.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Benedictow is in a greatly reduced state on the network, I will now get it in full and recheck everything again.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Gottfried will be next.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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They won't make the weather for a few days now - we will act for sure


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Zoe 02:17, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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:: No problem.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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There is any crumb - I will be the first to ask for an extension of the nomination.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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We'll do it right.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

We read: “Natural disasters in China lasted until 1347, killing five million people” - well, how much of this was due to the plague?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

See below.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

“in total, according to modern estimates, China has lost up to 65% of the population” - China, by the way, regularly conducted population censuses.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And surprisingly for me to find it, for some reason Cambridge History of China, Volume 6, Cambridge UP, 1994 (about the Yuan period), talking about the demography of this period (p. 618-622), about the plague He doesn't say a word at all.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Until we understand at least this, what status can we talk about?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

We need a source written by a sinologist, and not some third-hand retelling (I looked through Needam's volume about Chinese medicine, there is nothing about this plague that can be interpreted in different ways).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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I am generally silent about such trifles as non-compliance with the Palladium system in a strange statement from a geological point of view (“the Ki-min-chan mountains have disappeared”).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

A source written by a sinologist?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Do you have one?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Give me the imprint, you know what can be found in my languages I will find.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'll ask my friends in Russia.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Dr. Wu Lien-Teh talks about this very sparingly in his History of Chinese Medicine.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I can take this thing, it'll be in ten days.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Another thing is that this person is a doctor, not a historian, and whether he knew the ancient language well - I will not vouch for you.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Modern Western authors strongly criticize it.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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But we must, let's add, even without questions.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I can also take Mile Dols, Black Death in the Middle East.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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But there's no other way.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

If you have one, please tell me.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Or don't demand the impossible.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I do not see anything impossible to ask participants who speak Chinese to look for information (in Yuan Shi, other texts, and secondary sources).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Although we must admit that the Yuan period (especially its middle) does not enjoy much attention of researchers.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The status of the chosen one is not an end in itself, if it suddenly turns out that it is impossible to fully disclose without attracting sources on the Chinese topic - well, then the article should not receive status.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

By the way, Wu Lian-de, who you mentioned, also wrote a special work A Treatment on Pneumatic Plague.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Geneva, 1926, as well as the collection Wu L.T. et al.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Plague: A Manual.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Shanghai, 1936.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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In a 1936 paper (quoted from: S. Scott & C.J. Duncan. Biology of Plagues. Cambridge UP, 2001 P. 47-48) provides information on 232 cases of plague in China from 37 to 1718 —Chronicler 19:46, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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So demographic calculations with references to sources that are not authoritative in this matter (such as the BBC) in most cases simply hang in the air, there is no clear map, and based on the available data, it is hard to draw.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Due to the lack of an overview source, it is even impossible to draw a map of the spread of plague in Asia (was it in Japan? in Southeast Asia? If not, why, and how does this affect the reliability of general demographic estimates?).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

For example, New Cambridge Medieval History (this story is only about Europe) generally claims (Vol. 6. P. 136) that the smallest population was reached by the beginning of the XV century due to various repeated epidemics - then the question arises how the number of victims from the plague of the middle of the XIV century correlates with the number of victims from subsequent epidemics?!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Chronicler 16:50, December 31, 2011 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The BBC was entered by a friend I did not know, this article is generally a problem - 12 thousand visits per month!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

That's why I left this moment behind.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

When it comes to biology, I'm not a specialist, which is quite natural.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

That's why the holidays are over, I'll ask Vika to check.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I hope she doesn't say no to me.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This is the time.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There was no plague in Japan, see Benedictow.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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There is no information about other countries.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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At least I don't.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

In other words, the “lacunae” that you find in the article sometimes correspond to what is simply unknown to modern science.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The topic is not just huge — it is vast, and study here should be carried out on a global scale.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Of course, there are a lot of blind spots left.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And what, don't write?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Shall we wait a century or two for everything to be open?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

As you like, I do not think this approach is constructive.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I promise you that as soon as the libraries open after the holidays, I will start the search again, and I will get any crumb I have to answer your questions.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

And you do the same thing — this is the best way out.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

And in general, thank you for the original New Year greeting.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

All the best to you too.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 00:04, January 1, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Generally speaking, the phrase “no information” should also be accompanied by references to serious sources.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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So I looked at Berzin's essay on the history of Vietnam in this period - Vietnamese chronicles contain many references to famine and other natural disasters, but there seems to be nothing about the epidemic, so apparently the plague did not enter Southeast Asia.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

We also need to clarify about Korea.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 19:46, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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He clarified about Korea: as specially noted in Cambridge World History of Human Disease, 1993.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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P.393, Korean sources of the middle of the XIV century do not mention a similar epidemic.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Chronicler 20:22, January 14, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Vietnam: link can be given to: Berzin E.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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O. Southeast Asia in the 13th—16th centuries.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Moscow: Nauka, 1982.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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P. 47-52.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Chronicler 14:57, January 21, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Reordered by Benidikow (Last time it was not possible to hold it for a long time) Ordered by Liande.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

We'll see everything now.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Zoe 20:03, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Do you need a bunch of books that I borrowed from Gigapedia?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

So give me the address where you can send it (so that you can attach 50 MB approximately).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 20:05, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

And in general, do you know your answer to questions on Chinese historiography in the form of adding a legend of unspecified origin (Irish? Japanese? somewhere in between?) about the Chinese princess makes a tragicomic impression;) To be honest, Zoe, for you personally, the wording of the topic would look most organic: Plague in Western European medieval culture, that would be a great article.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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But when you need a general overview, problems begin.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Well, we must figure it out by joint efforts, but in reality we will be able to resolve all the claims by the end of the year.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

By the end of the year, that's great!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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:-) Well, I'm not afraid of work.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Don't get it right - I don't want to brag about it, but if we don't make this article together now (you, Majestad, I) - no one will do it.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I have your knowledge, Majestad Chinese, my languages and my access.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This situation is unlikely to happen again.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'm not going to back down, and I don't advise you to.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

;-) Send me to wikimail, I'll reply and give you my address.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 20:13, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I sent a letter.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 20:27, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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She answered.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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:-) Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Zoe 22:07, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I've sent one letter so far, there's an archive with 4 books.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'll try again later.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 23:10, January 7, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Yes, everything has been received.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

We can go on.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 02:44, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Well, this is a job.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Great Majestad, we open a fresh sake jug and take it gradually.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I'll start in an hour.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 18:34, December 31, 2011 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And yet something Done The structure destroyed by someone was restored.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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I see that this article should be constantly monitored.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Zoe 04:33, January 1, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Chronicler 2


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I will give you data from a few more books that Zoe did not send, as there is not much about the plague, but the data is important.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The preamble reports that the plague originated in “Mongolia”.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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However, the modern reader understands Mongolia primarily as a modern state, but sources point to it least of all, most often it is a vague “Central Asia”, and the Gobi Desert — this is rather within the limits of modern China.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Mongolian author Dalai Chuluuny, talking about Mongolia and national disasters, notes jute, drought and famine in 1330 and 1337-1340, but not epidemics (Mongolia in the XIII-XIV centuries.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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/Authorization.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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trans. from mong.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Moscow, Nauka (GRVL) Publ., 1983.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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P. 117-118), so little points to Mongolia in the narrow sense.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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This is where I can't tell you how much we laughed with the “rats don't have passports” curator.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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She gave both points of view in the article.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Near the Mongol-Chinese border, there is a natural plague hearth.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Christopher Atwood, for example, sees the first appearance of plague in a series of epidemics that swept Henan Province since 1313, and the outbreak of 1331 claimed 9/10 of the population.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The epidemic spread to the coastal provinces in 1345-1346, and in 1351 epidemics led to an uprising.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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At the same time, Atwood refers to McNeill's hypothesis that the Mongols, having conquered Yunnan, gave impetus to the epidemic, since rodents came from the slopes of the Himalayas (Christopher P. Atwood. Encyclopedia of Mongolia and the Mongolian Empire. Facts on File, 2004. P.41, 610)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There is such a case.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Note that the plague did not penetrate Asia where there were no Mongols.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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It makes you think.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The Himalayan hypothesis, as far as I know, is not in honor now - but as an opinion, it is possible to give it.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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What do you think?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Cambridge World History of Human Disease (Cambridge World History of Human Disease. Cambridge UP, 1993. P. 612) speaks about the localization of the outbreak “in Eastern Mongolia or Yunnan or Tibet” and even cites the hypothesis of Norris, who rejects Chinese data altogether and localizes the outbreak somewhere north of the Caspian Sea (although he hardly right).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And this is the case, in this case they are based on the Issyk-Kul graves, completely cutting off the entire eastern direction - they say, in China, India, etc.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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there was no plague at all!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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But this is where biology comes into its own.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

This disease does not begin anywhere, plague foci (places of natural reproduction of black rats) are well known, studied since the third pandemic, now they are constantly monitored, you'll confuse it.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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I once translated articles on epidemiology, so I have a clue what I'm talking about.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Paleopathology suggests that some European epidemics of the 12th-13th centuries may have been associated with plague, and the first description of bubonic plague in China dates back to 620. (Cambridge Encyclopedia of Human Paleopathology. Cambridge UP, 1998. P. 196-197)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Yes, Benedictow gives the same information.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Correction.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Old chronicles are very vague in the description of symptoms.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Further, it must be clearly stated that the death of the Chinese emperors from the plague is not a fact, but only not the most likely assumption.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And Dalai Chuluuny (Mongolia in the XIII-XIV centuries.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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/Authorization.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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trans. from mong.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Moscow, Nauka (GRVL) Publ., 1983.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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S. 127-128), and K. Atwood (Christopher P. Atwood. Encyclopedia of Mongolia and the Mongolian Empire. Facts on File, 2004. P. 632), describing the rapid change of emperors in 1328-1333, attribute their death to either poisoning or murder (which, apparently, follows the “Yuan Shi”).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Let's note in the article tomorrow that this is important.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The same, as I have already said, applies to assessing the share of deaths from epidemics.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The Cambridge History of Central Asia says that in China, a series of natural disasters that began with the floods in the Yangtze in 1332 led to the death of 7 million people.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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man and led to hunger, but does not talk about the plague.


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(The Cambridge History of Inner Asia. The Chinggisid Age. Cambridge UP, 2009. P.91).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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As already mentioned, the issue has been poorly studied out of hand.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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At the same time, Liande is not a historian or linguist, and another question is whether he read the ancient hieroglyphs correctly, which, as I remember, have changed their meaning in history.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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So the people are cautious.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Now for other details.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Atwood links the end of the Orduid dynasty (descendants of the Horde Egen) in the Blue Horde with the epidemic (Christopher P. Atwood. Encyclopedia of Mongolia and the Mongolian Empire. Facts on File, 2004. P.42).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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However, this does not fully correspond to the information of the article by Ulus Orda-Ejen (although it may mean the second wave of the epidemic, 1361).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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I'm confused!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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When did the dynasty end?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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If it's the 60s, it's really a secund, if you like, a derivative of the Black Death, but not itself.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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If not, go to the article!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Specify what time it is, if only it's not difficult for you.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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In 1361, according to an article by Ulus Orda-Ejen.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Chronicler 18:30, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


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There is a section in the History of the Tatars devoted to the influence on the Golden Horde, but the author notes that the problem is not sufficiently studied, and many data have to be extrapolated, is not always indisputable; although the fact itself the significant impact of the epidemic on its history is undeniable.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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He identifies three consequences: (1) large-scale population decline; (2) demographic decline and instability of political structures; (3) cultural and technological regression (Yulai Shamiloglu. The Black Death and Its Consequences//History of Tatars from Ancient Times in 7 Vols. VOL. 3. Kazan, 2009. PP.686-690).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Go to the article!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Thank you so much.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Atwood points out that the plague appeared in Iranian Azerbaijan in 1346/47, and in Mosul and Baghdad in 1349 (Christopher P. Atwood. Encyclopedia of Mongolia and the Mongolian Empire. Facts on File, 2004. P.41).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Bidlisi talks about the plague epidemic in 1346/47 in Tabriz in Sharaf-Nama.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Atwood and Shamiloglu (the latter with reference to the cadi of Crimea) give the figure of 85 thousand victims in Crimean cities (Christopher P. Atwood. Encyclopedia of Mongolia and the Mongolian Empire. Facts on File, 2004. P.121; History of Tatars. VOL.3. P.687).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Same way, thank you!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The Cambridge Medical History gives the following picture: in 1347 in Egypt, where, as everyone agrees, the epidemic was particularly severe; in the fall of 1347 to Sicily; in early 1348 affected Cyprus and Rhodes, in spring and summer — cities of the Eastern Mediterranean — Gaza, Jerusalem, Damascus, Aleppo, and then to Mecca, Armenia and in 1349 in Baghdad (Cambridge World History of Human Disease. P. 612).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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In 1348, the epidemic in Syria was observed by Christopher P. Atwood. Encyclopedia of Mongolia and the Mongolian Empire. Facts on File, 2004. P.230).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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So the statement: “Ships loaded with Chinese silk, slaves and fur brought the plague to Africa and the Middle East” is not supported by the spread scheme — according to all reliable reports, to the Middle East The plague came to the east not from the east, but from the north.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Although I apologize: the source says something like this.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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We just need to clarify that ships with silk came from Constantinople (after all, Egypt was quite active in trade in the Indian Ocean).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Chronicler 16:31, January 31, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Yes, this is true, confirms Benedictow, who specifically studied the spread of the plague.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Constantinople, although clarifies that the ships could be Muslim.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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I also found the indication of the author of the 16th century Leo of Africa: “The plague usually appears in Berberia every 10, 15 or 25 years and, when it comes, takes away a large number of people, because they do not show any caution about this disease and do not use any medication, except that they usually smear Armenian soil around buboes. Numidia has not had this disease for a hundred years, and it has never come to the land of the black” (Africa is the third part of the world. L.: Nauka, 1983. P. 50).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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According to him, Sub-Saharan Africa was not affected by the epidemic.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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However, the Cambridge Encyclopedia also confirms that the epidemic did not spread to the Pyrenees, the central Balkans and areas south of the Atlas Mountains (Cambridge Encyclopedia of Human Paleopathology. Cambridge UP, 1998. P.197)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Fleas cannot tolerate the caravan route through the Sahara, the sun burns them out.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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That is why, by the way, the Bedouins of the desert almost did not suffer.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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That's really why the plague didn't go South.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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It has already been included in the article.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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By the way, if you use Yandex's advanced search function for the word “plague” on a site where there are a lot of medieval texts, you can find many interesting examples, although, of course, they are mainly go beyond our period and can be referred to as “plague” a variety of diseases.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And this is the case, it has long been noticed that at that time they piled malaria and plague into a heap, and you never know what else (especially clever ones agreed before AIDS; -) I'm afraid without a good analysis... But I'll read it, thank you!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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There is also a review book by Buzhilova (Buzhilova A. P. Homo sapiens: Case history. M.: YASK, 2005), but there is no digitized chapter on the plague, I'll try to look at the paper one.


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I'm asking you.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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If I keep up, I would write a couple of additional articles, for example, about the East.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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I looked at the paper version, there is nothing meaningful there.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Buzhilova tends to be classified as plague epidemics of 1230 in Smolensk and 1284 in Eastern Europe, known from Russian chronicles, but, generally speaking, she is more of a specialist in the Stone Age, so her opinion can hardly be taken seriously, since she does not provide any archaeological data on the Middle Ages.


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—Chronicler 18:30, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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By the way, Atwood points out that for the first time Sumba Khanbo Yeshei-Baljor, a Tibetan scientist of the XVIII century (Christopher P. Atwood. Encyclopedia of Mongolia and the Mongolian Empire. Facts on File, 2004. P. 41, 345).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Wu Liande confirms.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The medical description of bubonic plague (it is already clear and clear) in China appears in plus or minus at the same time.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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It is not surprising that countries have been connected for a long time.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Now the most difficult question is numbers.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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From which source, it is interesting to know, was the statement taken: “the first count of them was made by order of Pope Clement VI and showed the figure of 23,840,000 people”?


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Professor William Neyfee, University of Aberdeen.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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In his opinion, “this amounted to exactly 31% of the European population of that time”.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Another thing is that the Pope thought, of course, only in Catholic countries, and the question is how he thought.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Therefore, at present this “account” is understood as sooooo preliminary.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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So Nafi is referring to some kind of initial publication?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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If the fact is true, it would be very interesting to read it.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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If it does not refer, the fact hangs in the air, because I suspect that if such a document really existed, researchers would refer to it more often.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

At the end, the usual list of first and second, but I don't know which one to look in, as you can imagine.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Unfortunately, this is the case in many European works.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The fact is, here's another link for you.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And one more thing.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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I think this is enough.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Zoe 20:23, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


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The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Paleopathology provides data: 25% of the world's population, or more than 60 million, with one third of the population of Europe (15-25 million), in England 30-50%, in Norway and Iceland two third, in Paris and Venice up to three-quarters (Cambridge Encyclopedia of Human Paleopathology. Cambridge UP, 1998. P. 197)


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The Cambridge Case History says scientists generally agree on mortality estimates of between 30% and 50% in Europe and the Middle East, with Central Italy, Southern France, the hardest hit, East Anglia and Scandinavia; relatively few victims (less than 20%) occurred in Milan, the Czech Republic and some parts of the Netherlands, none in Nuremberg (Cambridge World History of Human Disease. Cambridge UP, 1993. P. 613).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Encyclopedia of Plague and Pestilence (Facts on File, 2008. P. 31) cites figures of 25 million “Chinese, Indian and other Asian” populations and 25 million Europeans, including half of the population of London and 4/5 in Marseille.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Of course, any attempt to verify these figures will lead us into the complex jungle of medieval demography, but interesting details are revealed.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Thus, Biraben (let me remind you, the author of the French two-volume book on the plague) proposed a table of the world population in the 2nd millennium, article: Biraben J.R. Essai sur l'évolution du nombre des hommes//Population (34 ) 1979, p.16; I quote from: D. Christian.


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Maps of Time.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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An Introduction to Big History.


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University of California Press, 2004.


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Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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According to him, from 1300 to 1400, the world's population decreased from 431 to 375 million, of which in Europe (except the former USSR) - from 70 to 52 million; in China - from 83 to 70 million; however, he records the maximum decline in India, from 100 to 74 million


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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But we have already said that India was not affected much by the plague, so, most likely, the approximate figures are as follows: the plague has seriously affected areas with about half of the world's population, with an average mortality in 1/3, this gives 50-60 million.


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victims.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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This is probably what should be written in the preamble (or even better, limit ourselves to the phrase “several tens of millions”).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Chronicler 16:04, January 31, 2012 (UTC)


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I read from Benedictow how the count was done.


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It is based on church books in the parishes of the relevant countries plus tax documents.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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You know, I would not write “a few dozen” I tell you as a psychologist ;-) such a vague definition will not tell anyone anything.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Is a few two?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Ten?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Hundred?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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It is better to give a spread of numbers - what is in the literature.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And the reader will draw his own conclusions.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Once again, thanks for your help.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Zoe 04:22, February 7, 2012 (UTC)


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So the fact of the matter is that such surviving documents are rare, and the question of representativeness inevitably arises.


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—Chronicler 18:30, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Chronicler, you know, can't agree with you.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Take Benedictow's job, it's worth it.


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Only not in an Internet bitten state, but a paper version.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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There is the entire second part - half of the book - the layout of tables on church books, hospital and monastery records.


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A whole part is devoted to England alone.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The documents are just right, they just haven't been read very well yet.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The work has just begun.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Zoe 20:23, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And hopefully the last comments so far:


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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In the notes list, the message is red that the tag is lost, I can't see where it is.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Chronicler 16:28, February 13, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Fixed, I've been helped.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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“Together with merchant ships (or according to other sources, with a wave of rodents moving from the Mongolian steppes to more satisfying places), the plague then reached India” - both reasons, to put it mildly, are arbitrary.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Merchant ships could have been from Southeast Asia, but there is no data on the plague, and then they were supposed to get to South India.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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It's quite surreal about rodents - how should you imagine a “wave of rodents” moving thousands of kilometers away?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Either with the army or with the merchants.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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If with merchants, why specifically emphasize “hearty places”; there were no trips from Mongolia to India for that time.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Chronicler 16:26, February 13, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The funny thing is that this stuff comes from a book you sent me.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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;-) But it's not the point.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Let's cross it out to hell. I'm not sorry, although rodents can really move long distances.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Let's not guess.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

One place says that “the Finns sent the plague to the Iron Mountains with songs and spells, and supplied them with horses and a cart for ease of movement”; in another, that the first wave of the epidemic did not Finland I was amazed.


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Does the information refer to the second wave or should “Finns” be understood as Swedish or Norwegian Sami or someone else?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Swedish and Norwegian, of course.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Do you think the Sami will be a transparent name for wiki readers?


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If so, we change it, of course.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Zoe 18:32, February 13, 2012 (UTC)


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This is exactly what wiklinks exist for: the Sami.


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—Chronicler 19:19, February 13, 2012 (UTC)


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Disasters


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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“Like the Justinian plague eight centuries earlier, the Black Death was preceded by multiple catastrophic phenomena.”


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Can we say more clearly whether disasters were one of the causes of the epidemic, or were we talking about bad luck or something like that?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Without such an explanation, the text that follows looks rather hazy.


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Kantakuzin 13:44, January 12, 2012 (UTC)


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It's already said.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Catastrophe - epizootic - plague.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Zoe 22:23, January 18, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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By Il Dottore


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Very good table at the end of the article.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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But I think that it is necessary to indicate not the place of birth of the “victim”, but the place of death as more related to emergencies.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And instead of the last two columns, make one called “Date and Place of Death”.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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—Il Dottoret/C 16:35, January 23, 2012 (UTC)


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Hell knows him.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Maybe it's both?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Let me think about it again.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Zoe 22:50, January 29, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Ahem, what are both?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

And dates and places of birth and dates and places of death?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

No, I don't think you should.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The article is called “Black Death”, so it should talk about death, doesn't it ;-)?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Il Dottoret/C 15:37, January 30, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

So, did you decide anything?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Il Dottoret/C 19:11, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I don't know.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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In my opinion, birth is better, because


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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shows from which places each individual person is from.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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You can do both, but there will be a lot.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Zoe 20:38, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


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Evo how!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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(©) So you and I have opposing opinions.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Then I think we should get someone else's opinion.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Il Dottoret/C 20:49, February 11, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Preamble and Marginal Theories


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The first paragraph of the preamble lists the regions of the spread of the pandemic Asia, Europe, North Africa and Greenland+Mongolia), i.e.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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specific parts of the planet are listed.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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The next paragraph already states that 50 million have died all over the world, i.e.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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roughly speaking, the disease raged all over the world, and not only in the regions listed above.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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Question: what is meant by the concept of “the whole world” in this article, the planet as a whole and including undiscovered, but inhabited by Australia and New Zealand, Oceania, etc., or did the author mean the whole the world in the ancient sense, i.e.


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part of the world developed specifically by Europeans?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—ΜΣ22:29, February 13, 2012 (UTC)


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Black Death

Everything is simple here - the indication of “the whole world” indicates a common calculation, and not that the disease raged everywhere.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Do you suggest replacing it with “total”?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Chronicler 23:40, February 13, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

yes, “total” (in aggregate) fits more—μσ09:39, February 14, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

have already been redone, so much better—μσX 09:42, February 14, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The third paragraph of the preamble states that the Black Death left a huge mark on the history of Europe.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Question: In Asia, it did not leave a trace in North Africa either, maybe it left any trace?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—ΜΣ22:29, February 13, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Well, apparently, the sources did not raise the question in such detail, that is, although many people died, this did not lead to any structural transformations.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Clear—μσ09:39, February 14, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I propose to rename the Marginal Theories section into something more neutral and fair to scientific skeptics, otherwise it turns out that Graham Twigg and Suzanne Scott and Christopher J.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Duncan and Samuel Cohn are exhibited as some renegades and pseudoscientists, and not serious scientists, and this despite the fact that the article does not give a critical analysis of the specific studies of these scientists, they are simply named in the best traditions of the neutral Eastern Partnership are marginal.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

As far as I understand, in the 70s and 80s, in the absence of DNA analysis, any theory of the etiopathogenesis of Black Plague had a right to exist.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Please note that although the English article does not pretend to be a star, but in the Swedish star it stands - they have similar sections named the same alternative theories — μσ22:29, February 13, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

“Peyre Lunel de Montes, troubadour, described the plague epidemic in Toulouse in a cycle of mournful sirvent called “Meravilhar no·s devo pas las gens” — translation of the name?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Dmitry Rozhkov 05:15, February 26, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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For all translated quotes and titles (example: “in medieval Paris, there were Dermovaya, Dermyanaya and Dermishnaya streets, Stinking Crap Street, simply without embellishment Street of Crap and at the same time a street Writing”) it is necessary to provide the original text/spelling.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The costs of an overly energetic syllable (sometimes combined with a clear violation of VP:PU #Язык and style): “cunning artisans managed to circumvent this ban”; “an interesting theory was also put forward by a Russian biologist Supotnitsky”; “an interesting explanation for this is offered by Philipp Ziegler”; “the cholera epidemic raged in Germany”; “the war raged in France”; “the flywheel of the epidemic was launched around 1320” (by whom?) ; “Cambridge History of India considers this epidemic cholera” (epidemic ≠ disease); “the first approach <... > understood the plague as a punishment for mankind for sins” — first, the approach can not do anything understand; secondly, neither the second nor the following approaches [further in the section] — not a word.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Throughout the text of the article there is an overabundance of the adverb “finally” that cuts the eye: “and finally, the whole of Europe”; “and, finally, the flywheel of the epidemic was launched”; “and finally on the third day”; “and, finally, Samarkand”; “finally not withstood and ran”; “and finally descending to the South”; “and finally the appearance of hard buboes”; “and finally refrain from intimate intercourse”; “finally, it seemed the most sensible”; “ghosts, ghosts and, finally, “signs”; “finally, as it should be”; “and finally officially banned”; “and finally, the Reformation”; “finally, a representative for sinners.”


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The titles of the films in the “Reflection in Art” section are given without quotes.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

There is an incorrect apostrophe in the title of an English children's song (ibid.).


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

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And for yourself?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Dmitry Rozhkov 03:48, February 26, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The non-trivial statements and quotations contained in comments 2, 5—6, and 8—15 do not refer to the AI.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The sources cited in comments 1, 3, 4 and 7 should be placed in standard text notes.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

“Should” is a bad word.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

That's right “you can”.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

And for yourself?


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—Dmitry Rozhkov 03:52, February 26, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

95.69.154.7 21:33, February 25, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Curator's magazine


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I started proofreading, in the section below I will ask questions, because the material is large and good, but there is no limit to perfection.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—The Scarlet King 18:35, November 29, 2011 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The author is not in a hurry to correct the text according to the comments, intensively completing the new article.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—The Scarlet King 18:43, December 7, 2011 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Majestad, you're my favorite nerd.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

;-) Now let's deal with the Tyushens and go ahead.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 03:58, December 9, 2011 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

We came to a certain consensus by the author that the article requires significant improvement: some of its places and provisions are completely incomprehensible to a reader who is not immersed in the topic, and it is required significant improvement in order to eliminate this shortcoming.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

A new, improved version will appear in my sandbox.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

All comments and remarks will be taken into account.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

—The Scarlet King 09:31, January 4, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

* Dear Wikipedians!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

The situation here is as follows: when you immerse yourself in the material for a long time and stubbornly (and I have been working with the Hundred Years' War for two years), the stage “I understand, everyone understands” may come.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I am afraid that this is exactly what happened, especially since I tell you that it is very, very complex material, much more complicated than everything that has been written before.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

That is why I really need a fresh look, questions and comments now.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

It is not difficult to fix it, the material is at hand, two more books have been ordered, another thing — for example, it would not occur to me that Chinese material would raise questions.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Please let us help each other out.


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Good luck!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Zoe 17:36, January 4, 2012 (UTC)


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

I need help!


Question: How to get to the Sahara from Moscow?

Black Death

Now I read in my specialty — a treatise on Choreomania by Yu.